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Latest post 03-19-2011 9:37 AM by redwing3. 1,751 replies.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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How things change over time. When it comes to technology things change for the better, when it comes to personal freedoms and individual choices, things change for the worse.
Think back when you were a kid, did anybody ever wear a bicycle helmet? Was there ever a need to? When I was a kid Evel Knevel was my hero (and my mothers worst nightmare). My buddies and I would build ramps to jump our bikes off of, one time I even rode my bike off the carport. The worst that ever happened to any of us was a cut or a scrape. No one ever had any broken bones or a head injury. No helmets, no serious injuries, no problem. And we were pretty wreckless. Now just about every kid you see wears a bicycle helmet for everyday riding, not for the crazy stuff we did as kids. When I was a kid the only one who wore a helmet was Dennis, the retarded kid who lived on our block. So when I see kids with helmets today, I hate to say it but they look like little retards. Therefore I never force my son to wear a bicycle helmet, but I never tell him he can't wear one either.
These kids will one day grow up and be our future reps, senators, and governor. If they grow up assuming helmets are safer on a bicycle, helmet choice on a motorcycle, forget it. That's why we have to take care of this problem NOW!! The longer we have this law, the harder it will be to change it. We have had this law for so long now that no one under 40 can remember any different. In all of our neighboring states who took care of their helmet problem back in the 70's, helmet choice is no longer an issue, it is already long established. It is a common opinion in those states that wearing a helmet should be a choice, not a law. That is the general opinion of riders and non-riders alike. Never do you hear anyone in those states complain that they DON'T have a helmet law. Let's please end the non-sense and pass this law.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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This is the number of motorcycle fatalities per 10,000 motorcycles in our neighboring helmet choice states compared to mandatory helmet Michigan from 1993 to 2001:
Illlinois:
# of bikes-1,817,000 # of fatalities-1,023
#of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 5.6
Indiana:
# of bikes-937,000 # of fatalities-563
# of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 6.0
Minnesota:
# of bikes-1,138,000 # of fatalities-334
# of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 2.9
Ohio:
# of bikes-2,116,000 # of fatalities-1,059
# of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 5.0
Wisconsin:
# of bikes-1,613,000 # of fatalities-542
# of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 3.4
5 state total:
# of bikes-7,621,000 # of fatalities-3,521
# of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 4.6
Mandatory helmet Michigan:
# of bikes-1,398 # of fatalities-658
# of fatalities per 10,000 bikes 4.7
Source: NHTSA
As you can clearly see our helmet choice neighbors fatality rates are virtually the same as ours are with a helmet law. Therefore our mandatory helmet law is unfounded and needs to be changed.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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Feel good laws and nay-sayers
Helmet laws do not do what many people are led to believe. They do not save lives, they do not reduce accidents, and they do not cause insurance rates to go up if repealed. This is nothing more than scare-tactic rhetoric. There are many examples of scare-tactic rhetoric that the nay-sayers have used. For example, when Michigan passed its CCW bill, all the nay-sayers cried out that there would be more gun crimes, more shoot-outs on the streets, more violence and bloodshed. That did not happen, in fact gun crimes have dropped dramatically since the passing of this bill. When Michigan voters voted in favor of casinos the nay-sayers claimed that casinos would bring in organized crime and ruin families. That did not happen. Casinos have brought in BILLIONS of dollars and created tens of thousands of jobs. When Michigan raised its speed limit from 55 to 70mph, all the nay-sayers (and insurance companies) claimed that accidents and fatalities would increase dramatically, and there would be more bloodshed on our states highways. Well, that didn't happen either.
Now the nay-sayers are claiming (without any actual proof, but rather out of emotion) that if Michigan modified its helmet law to allow adult choice that accidents and fatalities will increase along with the cost of our insurance rates. That simply is not the case. Helmet laws do nothing more than make the nay-sayers feel good. Therefore the helmet law is just that, a feel good law. There is no evidence that allowing helmet choice has any of the negative reprocusions that the nay-sayers claim. Just like the CCW, the casinos, and the 70mph speed limit, nothing that they claimed would happen, did happen. Why would allowing helmet choice be any different?
What allowing helmet choice would do is increase our states suffering economy. According to the Lansing based account firm, Michigan Consultants, Michigan could expect to see a $1.2 BILLION dollar increase by allowing helmet choice. Allowing helmet choice would increase revenue generated from increased motorcycle sales and tourism. With every state surrounding Michigan allowing helmet choice, nobody from out of state is coming here to ride, and those who live here are going out of state to ride, myself included. I go down to Ohio to ride any chance I get. I would not have to do that if Michigan allowed helmet choice.
Michigan is losing a lot of money due to our helmet law. That's not my opinion, THAT'S A FACT! ! Please look at the facts objectively. Please don't buy into the nay-sayers anti-choice, scare-tactic rhetoric. Because that's all that it is. The nay-sayers were wrong about changing other feel good laws, and they are wrong about this as well.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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May is motorcycle awareness month
Hopefully those that were elected by WE THE PEOPLE (not the insurance industry) will be aware of this legislation and vote in favor of it. Everybody else please; look twice, save a life, motorcycles are everywhere.
Thank you :)
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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Who actually believes helmets are safer to physically PROVE IT to me. I do not want to see stats, I want to see results. Here's what you can do. Go to the roof of the Ren-cen building, put a helmet on, jump off, and if the helmet saves your life, THEN AND ONLY THEN, will I actually believe they are safer. Until then there is no actual proof. I do not believe what cannot be proven, that's why I don't believe in Santa Clause, The Easter Bunny, or that helmets make you safer. For those who do believe they are safer, who knows, maybe someday you may see a leprechan, a mermaid, or a unicorn.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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Number One: I don't know about those other guys, but let me tell you, buddy, Santa Claus does EXIST! He does, he does...he does!
Number Two: Stat's are very important, because they disprove the claim that helmets significantly mitigate injury in motorcycle accidents.
I was corresponding with some safety guy in Nebraska who kept throwing numbers around. He had consumed a significant amount of the pro-helmet Kool-Aid and was hard-core in his opposition to repeal of Nebraska's helmet law. For all his injury and death stat's, the one thing this expert apparently never considered was relative ridership.
We both know that overall saddle time (actual vehicle miles) drops when a helmet law is passed and increases in response to a repeal. The commie-cap advocates are unable or unwilling to understand this dynamic model and continue to insist that helmets are beneficial simply because total injuries and deaths drop when helmets are mandated.
We know that the very same thing could be accomplished -- and for the very same reason -- by reducing total motorcycle registrations and limiting annual vehicle miles.
So next time they play the statistics game, simply ask them to weight the data based on registrations, miles or reported accidents. If they were honest in their pro-helmet position, they will admit surprise when they see the result.
If they instead continue to argue, you know that they are insincere...that their position is anti-motorcycle, not pro-safety.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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that's really what this is all about
Helmets do not promote safety, they discourage riding. That is what the insurance companies really want. We have a governor who will most likely veto this bill, and her reason will be safety. Keep in mind this is the same woman who cut the funding for the motorcycle safety program in 2003. The safety program is funded by motorcycle registration fees, not taxpayer dollars. In otherwords, it's self-funded. Not to mention that riders safety programs are proven to prevent accidents and fatalities, helmets are not. Someone who would cut such a program can't be THAT concerened with safety.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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Declaration of Independence
We the people (not we the insurance companies) is the opening of the Declaration of Independence, and yet the insurance companies, not we the people, seem to be the ones in control. We need to change this. Just like the Colonists wanted freedom from British tyranny, motorcyclists want freedom from the insurance companies tyranny. (Ain't it funny how history repeats itself?) If history has taught us anything it's that freedom has to be fought for, it's not given away. What YOU can do is boycott AAA (they are the number one enemy of freedom), log on to abateofmichigan.org and get any information you may need to write the governor to support helmet choice. You can also call 517-335-7858 and tell Granholm's people that you want her to support helmet choice. It's up to YOU! You can be a sheep, or you can be a patriot, the choice is your's. If you do nothing then nothing will happen, GUARANTEED! If the Colonists choose to be sheep where would we be today?
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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"Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The trouble-makers. The square pegs in round holes. The ones who see things differently. They are not fond of rules, and have no respect for the status-quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify, or vilify them. But the only thing you cannot do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race foward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
Unknown
"The history of liberty is a history of the limitations of governmental power, not the increase of it."
Woodrow Wilson
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in."
Wayne Gretzky
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing in the world is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent..."
Calvin Coolidge
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
Albert Einstein
"I have discovered the art of deceiving bureaucrats; I speak the truth, and they never believe me."
Unknown
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great."
Mark Twain
"Nothing scares me more than someone who knows, WITH CERTAINTY, what is best for me."
Unknown
"The right to revolt has sources deep in our history."
Supreme Court Justice William O'Douglas
And for the insurance companies:
"Our motto must be to lie in order to conquer."
Benito Mussolini
"The size of the lie is a definate factor in causing it to be believed."
Adolf Hitler
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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ABATE's position supporting ADULT CHOICE instead of Michigan's mandatory motorcycle helmet law DOES NOT seek to eliminate the use of helmets. Although ABATE questions the MANDATORY nature of a law that forces the usage of so-called self-protection equipment with questionable benefits, it is the use of "DOCTERED" statistics, the misrepresentation of facts, and the outright lies used by the insurance companies to support their position which is especially bothersome.
It is easy to see that the incidence of injuries is directly related to the incidence of accidents. The fact of the matter, though, is that the incidence of accidents and, thus, the incidence of injuries along with the "fatality rate", (fatalities per 100 accidents), has been steadily DECREASING since the mid-80's, even with 30 states allowing "choice". This is CONTRARY to what people are led to believe by these same so-called "safety experts" according to the NHTSA. This can be easily verified.
The real question is "what can be done to curb the motorcycle accident rate even further?" Helmets do not prevent accidents, they have not reduced fatalities, nor do they make for a safer motorcycle rider. Helmets MAY reduce some types of injuries OR they may INTENSIFY the severity of injuries. The crash helmet's effectiveness is totally dependent upon the particular circumstances of the accident over which a helmet has no control.
An experienced, educated motorcycle rider knows that their ability to ride their motorcycle in a safe and alert manner will do more to determine the probability of their involvement in an accident than all the "safety" equipment that they could possibly carry. Therefore, the solution to reduce the motorcycle accident rate and more importantly, the fatality rate, is to initiate comprehensive education and awareness programs for BOTH the motorcycle rider and the car driver, PERIOD!
This information is provided to encounter the misrepresentations of the pro-helmet law crowd with clear, rational, objective responses to their emotional rhetoric. With 30 states allowing adult helmet choice this PROVES that neither fatality rates nor accident rates increase with adult choice. Furthermore, there is not one state in the Union that has increased it's insurance rates with the modification of their mandatory helmet law to allow adult choice. Conversely, there is not one state that has DECREASED their insurance rates with the passing of a mandatory helmet law. CASE CLOSED!
Finally, from "Motorcycles--Fatal Accident Reporting System" (FARS), as far back as 1977 comes the statement, "There is no significant difference in the fatality rates of states requiring and not requiring the wearing of a motorcycle helmet".
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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To improve motorcycle safety
It is evident that mandatory helmet laws are not reducing motorcycle fatalities. The decision on when and under what conditions to wear a helmet while operating a motorcycle should remain with each responsible adult rider for the following reasons;
1) Helmets do not prevent accidents.
2) Mandatory helmet use does not result in lower fatality rates. The Michigan motorcycle fatality rate per 10,000 bikes is not significantly different from the total for the surrounding Great Lakes States, all of which allow helmet choice. They are virtually the same.
3) In 2002, 32% of all fatally injured motorcycle operators were intoxicated with BAC's of .08 or greater.
4) In 2002, 25% of the motorcycle operators involved in fatal crashes did not have a valid motorcycle license.
Rather than focusing on mandatory helmet use, which does nothing to reduce accidents, energies should be directed toward reducing riding under the influence and improving motorcycle operator education and licensing along with car driver awareness prograns in the state. This is why ABATE of Michigan has recently introduced the Ride Straight program, which is a joint venture of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the American Motorcycle Association (AMA) and is aimed at reducing/eliminating alcohol consumption while riding. This is also why we continue to stress the importance of the rider education programs and to teach new car drivers to look out for motorcycles.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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NHTSA recently released data on motorcycle accident fatalities. The data did not compare helmet to non-helmet fatalities, just overall motorcycle fatalities. It concluded that motorcycle fatalities, whether weighted on a per-million mile basis or on a per-hundred thousand registration basis, are increasing every year. It's a regular upward spiral of death!
When I worked the numbers backward, however, I found that NHTSA is basing its upward trend in fatalities on some questionable data, including an assumption that the average motorcycle is ridden approximately 579 miles per year. At least, this the assumption for 2003. For the dozen or so years prior, each year uses a different assumption. I wonder about the basis of this arbitrary number and why it changes (slightly upward) every year?
Also according to the NHTSA data, there has been a significant upward trend in motorcycle registrations beginning in the mid-1990's.
So...if NHTSA is undercounting the average mileage (which we know goes way up when helmet laws are repealed) at the same time motorcycle registrations are increasing, the difference between the actual exposure rate for motorcycle accidents on a per-mile basis and NHTSA's assumption can be expected to become greater every year.
I think that this built-in error is the reason that NHTSA has concluded that there has been an X-percentage increase in fatalities per million vehicle miles every year for the past number of years: They undercount miles per bike and therefore underestimate exposure. Of course, having it's finger on the scale this way does give the group the results they want.
In fairness, the fatality rate on a per-registration basis has also increased. But in light of the above, I find myself questioning how they count registrations. Maybe they assume a low X-year life of a motorcycle, which would result in fewer estimated active registrations, thereby increasing estimated fatility rates?
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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It is essential to make a clear distinction between the use of a helmet and laws mandating such use. Helmets may be desirable under some, but not all conditions. Laws mandating such use at all times are unjustified. The decision to use a helmet, at what times, and under what circumstances or conditions should remain with the adult operator.
Mandatory helmet use laws were initiated by the Federal government in the Highway Safety Act of 1966, and subsequently repealed by the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1975. Most states repealed the imposed mandatory helmet use laws for adults after the Federal pressure was removed. Yet motorcycle safety statistics improved dramatically throughout the 1985 through 2000 period, with NHTSA figures showing a 51% decline in motorcycle fatalities in that time frame.
Some of those who drank the pro-helmet kool-aid believe that uninsured costs of injured motorcyclists, which must be born by the public, would increase if voluntary helmet use was permitted. This is not supported by the experience of states that have modified their helmet laws. As for any "burden" that uninsured motorcyclists may be thought to place on health care costs, it has been consistently determined that motorcyclists are just as likely, if not more likely, to be privately insured than the general population of trauma patients.
Motorcyclists do not represent any greater potential cost to taxpayers than a person driving a car or engaging in any other activity with a potential risk, be it skiing, horesback riding, or climbing the stairs in your house. Motorcycle accidents represent less than 6/10ths of 1% of all vehicular accidents. Compared with automobile drivers, motorcyclists represent a minuscule part of all motor vehicle costs.
Laws mandating helmet use at all times have no significant effect on the safety of motorcycling in general. Therefore this bill should be passed and signed into law.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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I heard on the radio today
that the Governor is not to popular these days. If the election were today, she would lose. Perhaps signing this bill into law would help her. I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I vote for the person (not the party) that best suits my interests. I did not vote for Granholm in ' 02 because she did not support this legislation and Posthumus did. If Michigan still has a helmet law in ' 06, I will again not vote for Granholm. If she were to sign this bill into law, then I would vote for her.
If she won't support this legislation simply because it is the right thing to do, maybe she will do it to get re-elected. Just something to think about.
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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Hey, all you bikers that are also union workers
Have you been making any more money since Granholm has been Governor?
Didn't think so. Enjoy wearing your helmets!
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Anonymous Citizen


- Joined on 11-22-2008
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Can't we just agree to disagree?
That is what Granholm had said to a group of bikers at a political gathering. Well Jenny, if you CHOOSE to wear a helmet and I CHOOSE not to, that would be agreeing to disagree, and that's fine. But when the government mandates helmet usage, FORCING their decision on everyone, that is not agreeing to disagree, that's fascism. All we are asking for is the right to choose. This is not an anti-helmet issue, it's a pro-choice issue. I would NEVER support a law banning helmets.
We are not asking you to agree with us, or like our decisions. But the right to choose is something that should not be taken lightly. It's like abortion. Nobody likes abortion, but it's necessary sometimes. If you feel strongly against it, then don't have one. But don't take away the right to have one. The right to choose is something that I hold dear as an American. Even if I don't agree with it personally.
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