Michigan Votes Forum

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. . . are too pushy with their religous views. I totally agree with the person who said some followers scare the hell our of them. Let's remember that "Under God" was added to the pledge during the Red Scare of the 1950s. You know, when this country felt it necessary to distinguish ourselves from the "godless commies." "It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket if this man believes in one god and that man in many." Thomas Jefferson

I work Sundays. I usually work Christmas Day. And Easter. Does that mean I'm not a Christian any more than having them off because a company or employers isn't open means one is a Christian? Sometimes, one cannot resist the Christian influences on everyday life, whether or not one beleives or agrees with it. Don't get yourself all worked up because some people don't believe in-- or are undecided about-- YOUR god.

If the problem is that your kid doens't recite the pledge, then stop him at the door every morning and have him say it to you. If the problem is that MY kid doesn't recite the pledge, what business is it of yours? There are plenty of reasons to NOT take up CLASSTIME with the pledge. We cry about schools not teaching our kids what they need, then stop class for the recitation of words most people don't know and don't understand. Teaching and showing patriotism would be a better use of time than recitation of a pledge. I don't consider myself a patriot-- but I rectied the pledge for years. (And for years didn't know what the Hack I was saying!)

Our country was actually founded with the idea that INDIVIDUAL rights would NOT be tramped by the majority! Let's not give that up because we've forgotten where we come from. And lets not mandate things that are ONLY symbolic in nature with no real effect. Sure it FEELS good to say "Our kids recite the Pledge of Allegiance everyday." Does it mean anything? Does it have an impact? Does it make them proud to be part of this country? No. All it does is make them recite words.

but, i'm 56 years old. my two uncles foght in wwII. one as an infantryman and the other a pilot flying b-17's over germany. i am a vietnam vetren. i love this country. and i pledge alliegiance to this country. i join the navy to die for your right to say the pledge at any event you go to. the fact that today with all the people trying to tear our country a part pi**** me off to no end. thru the years there hve been people that have died to defend your rights. when it comes to our pledge of alliegance, you better stand face the flag with you hand over your heart, and say it. the values of this country are the greatest. either back them up or go back to the commie country you came from and see how much freedom you have there !!!

i thought that was pretty much what i said... besides, most of my teachers used up so much of my classtime telling me exactly why i should be a souther democrat and always vote for whatever the teachers union supports that they didn't have much time to devote to vocabulary either.

suppressed American (one ALWAYS shoud capitalize American) says: >i join the navy to die for your right to say the pledge at any event you go to.< Evidently sA was not successful, since he/she/it still is around to write that blather and other nonsense. But sA’s ineptitude at writing coherent English aside, the fact is that one can and may say the Pledge of Allegiance at any event. It’s a matter of individual choice. By the same token, much blood has been spilled in defense of individuals’ rights to decline to say the pledge. Individual rights rather than rule and coercion by the mob (majority) is the keystone ideal in the arch of American freedoms. In our great nation, fundamental rights do not belong to groups; they are held by individuals. That is an important concept. sA rants on about how he/she/it is angry about divisiveness and the nobility of defending freedom, concluding with this thoroughly hypocritical and offensive statement: >thru the years there hve been people that have died to defend your rights. when it comes to our pledge of alliegance, you better stand face the flag with you hand over your heart, and say it. the values of this country are the greatest. either back them up or go back to the commie country you came from and see how much freedom you have there !!! < Such a bullying rant says clearly that sA completely lacks understanding of what this great county is all about and actually scoffs at our nation’s most important values. How sad, whether it comes of hypocrisy or ignorance.

thanks, religious freedom or right to have none, welcome to AMERICA

I have the right to disagree with the belief in God.

We can all do our thing and be Americans, contribute, solve problems, be patriotic, love our country, serve it, etc. It's a big place. Plenty of room for us all.

Students don't normally choose to set out the pledge of allegience due to anti-patriotic sentiments, they normally do so as an act of objection to being compelled to use the words "under God". The proposal is a promotion of religious belief wrapped in flags with red, white and blue ribbons. Children and teachers who refuse to participate can expect to be singled out for ... special treatment. This is an example of state-sponsored "bullying" of students.

to the michigan constitution... then tell me that god has no place in michigan law...

What you do on your day(S) of worship is your business. Pray for us all you want:)

we took "religion" and religious references out of the classroom, things have, as they say, gone to hell in a handbasket. could there possibly be some connection?

ask for the facts, that was Sgt. Friday... the law asks for the TRUTH.

The truth is god wasn't always in the pledge. It was added. And school is for facts. The fact is that the pledge was designed to promote patriotism which as an American value.

You could make THAT connection, too, if you wanted. What year did they INSERT god into the pledge? HMMM?

:O

about a thousand years... documented history changes all the time. yes, the term "under god" was added to increase patriotism, and it WORKED. the legislature of the state of michigan starts EACH SESSION with a prayer. that's supposed to increase fairness, goodness, and unity. the jury is still out on that one.

church and state... michigan state law... 750.102 Blasphemy; punishment. [M.S.A. 28.297 ] Punishment Any person who shall wilfully blaspheme the holy name of God, by cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. wow... a law, written down, with the word "god" in it...

reaction to being "required" to do something that you do not believe in... like being "required" to wear a helmet.

we shove stuff down our kids throats because it's good for them. kids don't like leafy green vegetables either, but they eat them. sometimes it ISN'T good for them. kids don't like going to public schools, but they go.

let's be a little bit more realistic, mike. I (not you, not the state.) pledge (promise, something liberals break on a regular basis) allegience (faith in, alliance with, agreement with, support of) to the united states of america (not europe, china, or any faction or special interest) and to the republic (not the MAJORITY) for which it stands (as in, "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything") one nation (not hyphenated sub cultures) under god (even the michiganistan legislature starts with a prayer, let's see them take THAT away.) indivisable (as in "will NOT be divided, even by our own petty interests) with liberty (as in "freedom to be contrary, ignorant, or rich") and justice (as in "don't do the crime if you can't do the time) for all. (as in "Not just for the "underpriveledged")

recite words every day. they usually end with... "and god bless mommy... and daddy... and....

notice that the state only used the word "GOD", and not allah, buddah, yaweh, tao? one religion, to the exclusion of all others. is that saying that christianity is the official religion of michigan, or that it is officially okey dokey to malign the names of all the rest?

funny ringtones

if school were for facts, then it would only last about six years. you pretty much run out of facts at that point. the rest is all somebody or other's theory of this, that, or the other. the school i went to made a big deal about making sure that we read the communist manifesto, mein kampf, and das kapital. they said it broadened our minds.

Since "Under God" was added to the original pledge in 1954, why not remove it and stop all the issues with it being recited in schools. Return the pledge to a non religious, patriotic statement and there will be no problem with giving our children patriotic thoughts.

And we all know how often this law is enforced and what would happen if anyone ended up in front of a judge facing those charges, lmfao.

This is a great idea: >Since "Under God" was added to the original pledge in 1954, why not remove it and stop all the issues with it being recited in schools. Return the pledge to a non religious, patriotic statement and there will be no problem with giving our children patriotic thoughts.< Only trouble is, doing such a good thing would deprive the neocon leadership of a favorite wedge issue they use to divide this “one nation …” of ours, to keep us scrapping among ourselves. And that just would not do.

TRUTH in GOVERNMENT. It's a core democratic value we teach our children. Practice what you preach, legislators. The word God was added and we all know it, so it should be a choice and CLEARLY communicated to all students at all ages whether they need to say it or not. Learn about God in church as many days a week as you want.

If you do not wish to say the pledge, then don't say it but don't infringe on the right of those who do wish to say it. By the way, I have had several students who due, to religious or personal reasons, choose not to say the pledge with the class. They either sit quietly or stand quietly. There has never, in my entire teaching career, been any negative reaction toward any of those students from myself or any other student. Some, usually the younger kids, are curious about why someone isn't saying it but all that has ever been required to be said is a simple statement that the student chooses for personal reasons not to say the pledge. The only people, in my experience, who make a big deal about saying the pledge or not saying it are politicians or other adults who are pushing a particular agenda. Can we all stop making a mountain out of a molehill and move on to more important and worthwhile matters?

doing what you do for "God and Country"?

knowing your rights, including freedom of religion and your right in this country NOT to have a religion and believe as you wish as long as your beliefs do not interfere with another CITIZEN'S pursuit of happiness. Our young people know this as part of their social studies curriculum. They know their rights and what core democratic values are. We live in a democracy. We ditched popular sovereignty long ago and one person bullying their religious beliefs onto others.

have a religion mean that everyone else CAN'T have a religion?

As seen in your COMMENT. Patriotism by DEFINITION doesn't have to have ANYTHING to do with religion. They are separate CONCEPTS. One should not have to be religious to be patriotic. I mean that's just STUPID. I said absolutely NOTHING about having a problem with YOU being religious. Knock yourself OUT! I said part of patriotism is knowing your RIGHTS. Freedom of Religion OR the right not to have a religion and STILL NOT BE DISCRIMINATED against in this country for a job, for anything.

Sorry!

it's ok for religious people to have their religion and want that right and freedom, but they tend not to respect the right of those of us who do not care to have a religion to do so. Doesn't seem to work that way. A pity in the land of the free. A novel IDEA, though.

textbooks?