Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on January 25, 2005, to require classes in public schools to recite the Pledge of Allegiance each day. The bill would prohibit compelling a student to recite the pledge, and would allow, but not require, school districts to offer the pledge or the national anthem at after school events

The vote was 36 in favor, 0 opposed and 2 not voting

(Senate Roll Call 37 at Senate Journal 23)

Click here to view bill details.

Absolutely. We need to get back to being patriots in this country.

This bill is useless. First, there is nothing prohibiting any teacher from leading students in the Pledge right now. Secondly, the bill excuses any students who don't want to recite the pledge. So all this bill does is order teachers to force the pledge onto their class...who can opt out if they want. And what of a teacher's right to opt out? This bill is a waste of the legislature's time.

What is the purpose of this legislation other than to make the legislators think they did something good? What benefit is going to be provided to the students? Next who is going to enforce it? Are you going to increase the foundation amount so that schools have money to do this or is this just another unfunded mandate?

Why not. When growing up it was part of my school day. So what has changed. It is great to be an American. If you don't want to recite the pledge don't.

Oh, I'm such a patriot. I want our kids reciting the pledge. Who cares if I cut education funding and let big business dictate which country to employ folks from. At least I can look more "American" by sponsoring this trash legislation. Way to go Birkholz.

I'm not familiar with Senator Birkholz. Maybe she is just in it for the headlines. Nevertheless, I don't think that this is bad legislation. As simple as this may sound, I think that the more that Americans share, the more that we will have in common as Americans -- and the better off we'll be. Reciting the Pledge is an activity that links people together and affirms a common bond. And yes, it also builds patriotism. Like one other poster to this topic, I grew up with it in school and remember it as a good thing. To those who think it's just a waste...well...the fact that this is something that even has to be addressed in the form of legislation is unbelievable. It's unbelievable for a couple of reasons: This legislation is a basically a directive to schools throughout the state. I'm surprised that they have to be "directed" to do this; recitation of the Pledge is an activity that should be automatic in school. To the extent that this legislation may be a response to a fear of lawsuits by school personnel who would otherwise willingly implement such a policy, it is a shock to realize how screwed up we've become: that a school administrator needs a state law as cover against possible lawsuits for allowing classes to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. It's also unbelievable that the common reaction to this legislation is that it's a waste. The Pledge of Allegience. The National Anthem. The American flag. These are all symbols of our national identity. Our history. The recitation of the Pledge is never a waste.

I quite agree with everything you said about this bill. The paragraph quoted below raises a very good point (question). >”This legislation is a basically a directive to schools throughout the state. I'm surprised that they have to be "directed" to do this; recitation of the Pledge is an activity that should be automatic in school.<“ If this bill is aimed at a “problem” (non-recitation of the Pledge by schoolchildren in Michigan) that is real and widespread, then it may have some legitimacy. If it is addressing mere conjecture, or just some negative idea about what goes on in our schools and so is just what all too many of us “want” to believe, that makes it something else. What I’m getting at is this: If this bill is a solution in search of a problem that doesn’t exist it ought to be canned. If real and credible evidence is presented to demonstrate that the problem exists and is truly widespread or common, then it may be worth considering. Emphasis on that word “may.” We ought to be skeptical of Lansing’s obvious determination to end local control of anything and everything.

You may be right. I am a former Michigan resident now living in Colorado. We recently passed a similar law for the reason that certain districts refused to allow the Pledge to be recited. Frankly, it did not occur to me that a legislator would introduce this kind of law in the absence of a similar problem.

I pledge alliegence [I belong with] to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic [about which most students don't understand the concept of state's rights]for which it stands One nation [as opposed to separate interests] Under God [I'm sure this will be ruled unconstitutional] Indivisible [in spite of the fact that RI & VA made opting out of the federal system a right contingent on their assent to the constitution] With liberty [subject to unending regulation, taxation and illegal detention] and justice [except for anyone I decide is an enemy combatant, or who does something we in power don't like] For all [those making significant campaign contributions]. Let's read this often!

I pledge alliegence to Patty Birkholz and her united GOP of the Fatherland, and to the Nazis who've infiltrated them all, one party under investigation with proganda and deceit for all.

I believe this to be a commendable effort to help to re-instill some of the values in our country. I believe that, here in Michigan, we need to do more to promote the patriotism that has built our country. I am concerned about the ethics of those businesses who choose to move more and more jobs overseas. As a former Mayor and six term past Post Commander of the American Legion I think this will be a start to let the world know that we are patriotic and will move to protect our homeland.

Idiot.

Now we wouldn't want those kids to hear we live in a Republic, would we? We wouldn't want them to know about liberty and justice for ALL. If they hear the pledge they might actually want to know what it means.

Those businesses aren't leaving over patriotism, they are leaving over economics. Some are just greedy, some can only compete by using the same cheap labor that their competitors have access to. It's competition, not patriotism, I'm afraid.

You do not neet funding to recite the pledge. What a useless comment.

Thank you for indoctrinating my grandchildren to your statist thinking. Instead of wasting my grandchildren's time sucking up to the state, why not teach them their school is an illegal entity of the state, coercing their parents from their property in order to provide funds for useless administrators to produce propaganda for them to learn. I dare one of you low life administrators to try responding. (jmckindles77@yahoo.com)

>Instead of wasting my grandchildren's time sucking up to the state, why not teach them their school is an illegal entity of the state, coercing their parents from their property in order to provide funds for useless administrators to produce propaganda for them to learn.< The technical term for this type of rant is “crackpot.”

Well, it looks like the legislature will lay this turd of a bill plunk on the books. While I'm all for patriotism, it can only be genuine when it is voluntary. As a baby boomer, we recited the Pledge every day. We stood there, mouthing the words, but nobody ever told us what they meant. They were just words. Kids can't enter into contracts. So how do we ask them to "pledge allegiance" unless they know enough to want to do it voluntarily? I'd like a bill introduced that would teach students about the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Make them a prerequisite for American History. I never heard about the Federalist Papers until long after I was out of school. Again, this bill accomplishes nothing that isn't already done. All teachers are free to lead the pledge in their classroom. All students, if they choose to do so, can "opt out" (although how that might be accomplished is questionable). This bill is ONLY meant as a kiss-up by an ambitious legislator. I call it "grandstanding."

I think the question was who will enforce this law? Will there be "pledge police" walking the halls of schools? If so, who will pay for them? That's where the money comes in. Any enforcement, even if it's just school staff taking a few moments of their taxpayer funded work day to assure that their staff is in compliance, is a cost.

Could we require that ALL state employees comply with this bill/law? What a waste of time AND money in this budget crunch year? Where are your priorities?

Could we require that ALL state employees comply with this bill/law? What a waste of time AND money in this budget crunch year? Where are your priorities?

Believe it or not, I was going to write the same thing that McKindles did...then I realized it was just plain nuts. For what does the "J" stand, I wonder? "Jackball?"

You will have all eternity separated from him. You will get to spend for ever without ever seeing him again, thats what you want thats what you will get. But I do get a kick out of some people who gladly take Christmas bonuses, and Sundays off work and turn around and say they dont want God in their lives.

What - mouthing a pledge makes you a Christian? Not working on Sunday Makes you a Christian? Open your eyes, think for yourself, look around you, and stop babbling this right-wing gooblygook by wrapping yourself in the flag and God. God will measure you by what you actually do in this life, not by the pablum you reguritate and the rhetoric you spew out like some programmed religous nut. Even the devil can quote scripture.

What does liking (or not liking) God have to do with reciting (or not reciting) the Pledge of Allegiance? I don't get it.

Ditto State Employee

...but some of his followers scare the hell out of me!

Every morning at the begining of class we said "The Pledge of Alligence". We need our future generation to be patriotic and stand up to those who try to take away our rights and freedoms. Wheather it be the terrorists or the insurance companies, anyone who tries to take away freedom NEEDS TO BE STOPPED!

How are we supposed to demonstrate the concept of "rights and freedoms" to students, by compelling them to recite the Pledge every morning?

This bill only mandates that school children be given time to recite the pledge. Let's expand this. Require all to do the same. Everyone should publically recite the pledge as they begin their day. First, require it in the home, first thing before breakfast the family must have time to salute and start that familiar phrase, "I pledge alliegance..." Now do it again at work. First thing before the shift starts the boss or supervisor should lead their employees in the pledge. Is it too much to ask? If so, then the workplace should take the sports approach and at least have everyone join in a singing of the national anthem before the assembly line starts. We could then all chear as we get to "home of the brave" and put the hardhats on and climb the scaffolding to start the day's project. Of course, the weekends prove a little more difficult in starting the day, but at least for those church-goers, the law could stipulate that the congregation begin the service by a quick pledge recital. Maybe even do so for Sunday School. Who says we need separation of church and state anywhere, it isn't in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution. And besides, the pledge does have the phrase "under God" so I'm sure the ministers won't mind. If any of this sounds absurd I greatly appologize. Seems to me the initial bill brings this on.

You cannot have rights without responsibilities. The fact that we are having this discussion is an indication of the dismal failure of th public schools to teach civics.

One to follow the AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Amendment [I.] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people. Which rights are we bending next? The right to keep and bear arms, the right to not have our houses searched, the ability to vote, the ability to drink a beer? Those are all in the Amendments of the Constitution. Most people in the U.S. have the same views on religion and don't understand the views of people such as myself. But, how would you feel if you go to vote at the next election and your told you can't vote? How would you feel to have someone else pick and choose which rights your allowed. I'm all for the pledge but the under god part makes me feel like someone told me I can't vote.

Where in the name of God did that come from. What is it going to cost to have teachers start their class with the Pledge. Good grief give me a break.

As my very wise father taught me so many years ago. Voting is not a right. It is a privilege paid for with the blood of many brave men and women a long long time ago. Too bad more people in this country don't bother to excercise this privilege. Of course from what I see of the general public perhaps we can be thankful some of the choose not to vote because they are so very uniformed. It amazes me how people who don't vote are the ones who seem to be the ones who scream the loudest when they don't like what the legislators both Federal and state are doing. And they can't figure out why their rights are being taken away. Our rights are NOT being taken away. We are giving them up in the voting booth. Oh and by the way Welfare is not a right. And don't jump on me I am very low income. Have no health insurance. Oh and surprise I am a Republican with very strong Libertarian leaning and no I am not a right wing Christian nut. Another bit of sound advice from my Daddy. Don't vote the party. Vote the candidate by doing your homework and actually doing research into their true beliefs and oppinion of what change needs to me made. And make sure you know what the real issues are before voting for a against. Better no vote at all than an uninformed one. (getting of soapbox) A flag waving, Anthem singing, Pledge reciting citizen who is not afraid to Rally and speak up for what is right and against what is wrong and more than willing to hold my party's elected officials feet to the fire as well as the other side of the aisle.

WE ARE AMERICA!! WHEN WE FORGET WHO WE ARE; WHO DO WE BECOME?? AS LONG AS WE ARE AMERICA AND DON'T FORGET WHAT WE HAD TO GO THROUGH TO BECOME AMERICA... AS FAR AS THE "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" PART... OH I'M A TRUE BELIEVER / CHRISTIAN & ALL; BUT AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, WE CAN BE "ONE NATION UNDER the sky" INDIVISABLE, WITH LIBERITY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!! SHUCKS, MY GOD LOVES THE UNBELIEVER TOO. DOESN'T YOURS?!

...as citizens of the United States, are we not compelled to solidarity with our neighbors and to our country? Are we not a nation, proud and united? If an individual feels that the recitation of the Pledge of Alligence and the playing of our National Anthem is wrong, then perhaps they should take up residence in another country. When the people who come here from other nations to become American citizens, they are taking on the responsibility to act as Americans. This does not mean that they must throw away the customs of their various cultures, many of these customs have enriched our country as a whole. However, if individuals choose to live as citizens, yet separate for the rest of us, they have made the choice NOT to truely become citizens. They should NOT be here. They account for small faction of citizens as a whole, they should NOT be given the power to make changes in a country that they cannot pledge their allegience to. What has become of majority rule? Why have we let a few individuals change the course of our government and our way of life?

Children are at times misguided. I believe that all Americans would agree, there is nothing wrong with patriotic displays. School is a place for learning to occur, and teaching allegiance to country is something the leftists would like to see go away. We should make every effort to stop them and instruct the youth of America it is OK to love your country.

Get a Life...

I've been waiting for a long time. THANK YOU! Words can not express my gratitude for addressing this issue FINALLY. I've been squirming in my seat for years as a student in your Michigan public schools feeling powerless as everyone else says GOD, wondering if anyone else was squirming, feeling afraid to say "I'M UNCOMFORTABLE!" Children come to school to learn. This is not a waste of time. Even non-Christians have rights under the laws of this government.