Michigan Votes Forum

Maybe the thousands of applicants for every teaching position available in MI will fill the jobs of retiring teachers eh? I'm sorry but most people I talk to now days are not feeling sorry for Michigan teachers!

>I'm sorry but most people I talk to now days are not feeling sorry for Michigan teachers! < I don’t think teachers are looking for sympathy. I suspect what they want is a fair shake, just like anybody else. At the very least that means public policies regarding their compensation and work conditions should neither be inspired by resentment nor be punitive in their nature or effect. Unhappily, an awful lot of the remarks posted here regarding this bill and others that would move teachers to a state health insurance program express resentment toward teachers, and an underlying desire to punish them in some way. For shame. The worst part of these proposals is, they would stifle rather than encourage the kind of competition between health care insurance providers that might help restrain rising costs for everyone.

The public doesn't realize how much money teachers spend on their own materials. My pencil sharpener broke, and the custodian insisted I by it myself because I'd already spent my $100.00 per year budget that I'd spent even before the kids came in August BECAUSE teachers usually plan for the year in the summer. Summers off are a myth. That's just one example. I'd like to see teachers on here listing their expenses for one year.

What's that all about? I heard it was pricey. Teachers love their insurance and frankly deserve it. How wise is MESSA being? Was the new building necessary? Ask a few MESSA employees. They'll tell you. I wonder what MESSA employee insurance is like? Better or same than teachers?

How does it really work? If parents ONLY knew what teachers spend in a year, in their careers. I don't know of many professions like that.

No one said teachers don't deserve their current insurance. It's MESSA that's is the problem. Blue Cross is Blue Cross, but MESSA jacks up the price to feed money to the MEA. The same plan in a non-MESSA district costs $3,000 to $5,000 less, for the SAME coverage. That's money that can be put toward supplies, books, equipment, more teachers, you know, those things that might actually help the kids. But it's becoming more apparent around the state that the teachers union would rather march in lock step with the MEA, even if it means fellow union members losing their jobs (teachers, bus drivers, custodians).

When a legislative proposal is aimed at putting out of business a legal entity engaged in a legal business. That's what makes this bad legislation that should go nowehere. MESSA may be annoying, and the MEA may be stubborn as a mule in negotiations over insurance, but the fact remains that insurance is a negotiable item in teacher contracts and that many Michigan schools do not use MESSA. This bill is not even aimed at monopoly or near-monopoly busting. It is pure vindictiveness. That makes this bill completely repugnant.

Michigan teachers are the second highest paid in the nation. They work approximately 180 days a year. They are not underpaid in any sense and if you calculate the cost of their benefits their compensation exceeds that of many professions that entail many more hours of work and stress. The cost of their taxpayer funded insurance is ridiculously high in many of the districts. It is time to reign in these outrageous costs.

How many out-of-pocket expenses do you have? And frankly, Michigan pays more because the winters stink and places like Florida don't HAVE to pay more.

A) Teachers work 180 days a year? Obviously, you are not one if you really believe that. I work all summer long taking required classes (have to take classes to keep my certification), finding and making resources for my classroom, etc. I'd love to work only 180 days but it just isn't so. Also, I bet that when you clock out at work, your job is over. I know my family members who are not teachers certainly do not do any work after their 8 hours are over. I routinely bring work home and work evenings and weekends. B)Teaching is not a high stress profession? OK, that just had to be a joke. Dealing with abused and neglected children, legal red tape, ever changing mandates and requirements, shortages of supplies/materials, building problems (85 degrees plus in the classroom), children constantly moving in and out of the district, children going on and off medication (and the assorted behavior/academic problems), behavior problems, etc are all very stressful. Also, add to all of the above the fact that teachers are blamed for any and all problems in education. Ever wonder at the high turnover rate for new teachers, especially in special education?

How exactly do you think forcing teachers into government run health care would contain costs?

I could write a book!

Please do! Maybe if the general public and the legislators had a clue about what teachers really do, they'd get off our backs and stop blaming us for everything. Maybe they'd actually start treating us with some appreciation and respect.

EVEN 180s to show the public where their money goes. It is UNREAL! If this field were mostly men this CRAP wouldn't fly. Not many men willing to put up with that kind of BS.

Break down the myth, please. Help foster relations between parents, teachers and taxpayers. If they only knew! I know if a story bleeds it leads, but come on.

Thanks

Everybody always talks about how much teachers get paid and how few hours they work-- but what about legislators? Congresspeople make WAY more than teachers do, and work less hours. Legislators don't have to walk into a classroom and hope there are no guns, no fist fights, no students cutting themselves. Legislators have far more time off-- and they don't have papers to grade or lesson plans to create or phone calls to make after school hours. Why don't we vote to take away their benifits or their salaries? Why do we always focus on teachers? Or at least make things a little more equal-- I mean, both salaries come from tax payer dollars. But no teacher will make six figures-- with state-paid-for cars and trips and restaurant tabs.

i personally think that some of the republicans are r.i.n.o. (republican in name only)

this is what happens when you allow the "low bid" system work it's magic.

. . . and you will see that most of our majority party legislators are lockstep Republicans In Name Only.

How sad?

Do they fake it to be on this side with the most seats and get their ideas through?

This "myth" is extremely damaging not only to teachers but to parents as well. The MEA should get some teachers to start blogs that recount the daily tasks, challenges, and work load a typical teacher experiences. Totaling up the hours, detailing the investment of time beyond the ringing of the school bell, recounting run-ins with parents as well as difficulties in dealing with the administration and/or the building facility itself would be an eye opener - and being on the net, a reference resource for those who support public education. It is time to make the case for teachers BEFORE negotiating compensation, not just while.

Union Monitor Through the years, the Mackinac Center for Public Policy has published a variety of in-depth studies and reports on labor policy. What is our goal? To see a restoration of a free market in labor that respects each worker’s right to choose whether to join or support a labor organization. In other words, we seek a day where workers are free to deal with management as individuals or can associate with others in that process if they see fit. Why? Because we believe that individuals make the best choices for themselves and their families. Fortunately, the Mackinac Center is not alone in working toward this goal. The Center has produced in-depth analysis of collective bargaining in Michigan, the rights of workers who do not want union membership, the impact of labor law, such as the impact of Michigan’s law requiring the use of the union’s prevailing wage in public construction, MESSA, the Michigan Education Association-created school employee health care administrator, and a host of other labor topics. But there are times when a study is not necessary. A fact can say it all. The declining union membership in America states volumes about the relevance of labor unions to most Americans’ lives. Today there is a new organization in the cause that is concentrating on the free dissemination of information: The Center for Union Facts. Have a question about unions? A wealth of information is available on their Web site, www.unionfacts.com. As an example of their work, check out the following ad: http://www.unionfacts.com/ads/downloads/tv_unionbosses.wmv. This is a creative way to bring home some points that every union member should consider. We at the Mackinac Center will, of course, continue to produce studies and reports on labor policy so as long as we have the means to do so. We will never give up on liberty. And in this fight, we welcome those organizations who highlight the drawbacks of coercive collective bargaining. ##### Thomas W. Washburne is director of labor policy for the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a research and educational institute headquartered in Midland, Mich. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is hereby granted, provided that the author and the Center are properly cited. Category: Labor

I guess were lucky we are not in the white collar world then. I feel sorry for all of you who accept what is given to you. I am a proud MEA member and maybe instead of you all complaining, maybe you should go out and get a real union job and stop being jealous.

We in the insurance business hate working with Ms. Granholm beause she makes all rate hikes look like the insurance Companies fault when in truth all it is, is an another tax hike. She is a liar. Vote for whoever, just not her!!!

as opposed to INDIVIDUAL bargaining. each teacher being paid/compensated based on their particular merits. the same way the NON-UNION folk have to. if teachers didn't have to pay union dues, imagine what they could do with all the extra money they'd have left over. maybe even afford better insurance... who knows?

They have SO many uncovered costs. The public and legislators have NO idea. It's unreal the out-of-pocket stuff.

quit the union, save the union dues. they obviously aren't doing anything for you.

TEACHERS deserve the health insurance.

Didn't unions start to form at Ford during the Depression when the supervisors beat the line workers if they worked too slow AND workers were informed if they didn't like conditions, there were tons of people in line outside the plant that would be more than willing to take their jobs? Funny how people like to be treated fairly and humanely.

We need DeVos. Lets start fixing this crazy state!

Put them on Medicare D for prescription coverage, where they pay out of their own pocket for the cost.

many IT/DP professionals saw their jobs "outsourced." Teachers should stop whining all the time and be thankful that the same can't happen to them.

First of all, my sister is a teacher in a private school so I do know what I am talking about. She briefly taught in a public school and saw what I am the following firsthand. Ever hear of substitute teachers? You know, the ones who fill in when a teacher "calls in sick"? And having the summer off isn't enough vacation? Under some contracts, a teacher can elect to draw his/her salary for the full year or just during the school year. Teachers claim they should be paid more because they have to bring work home with them--grade papers. Other professionals who bring work home, so what is a teacher's gripe about grading papers? They knew that was part of the job going in. And now they complain about it? Also, teachers in private schoools are paid less (in most cases) than those in private schools. (I won't even get into the quality of the education one who goes to a private school receives.) Another one of their current gripes is class size. My sister's classes have about 40 kids, so that one does not hold water. What's the other one? Oh, yes, buying supplies. lol Yeah, buying a pen and a notebook for a student whose family is low-income is such a hardship for someone who makes more in a few months than some families live on in a year. And when textbooks are not current, my sister printed info off the net, distributed it to the students and taught from that!

See Spare me.

Replied to wrong person by mistake. At least I didn't double post! lol

You refer to special populations--the funding has been shifted. Also, NCLB was basically an unfunded mandate, but that is another story. The rest of your post makes complete sense.

> if things deteriorate any further then I will have to look at doing something else to provide a decent living If you are only teaching for the money, leave now. You aren't doing anyone any favors by remaining a teacher. See Spare me.

Especially w/today's economy. So, here's the deal: I take your sweet union job and you be unemployed! So, grow up and stop insulting the people who pay your salary. You work for taxpayers who have children. BTW, see Spare me.