Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the House on May 27, 2003

Click here to view bill details.

Charles,
America was built on free market policies; you're good old supply and demand concepts.
Unless you can prove some anti-trust violation, then the consumer will benefit from the lower prices in the long run. Personally, I like gas wars and take my business to places that are willing to compete; they earn my business that way. They can give gas away to lure me in. Nobody owes anybody a living yet, however, the socialists would like us to think that is the case.

Why not just destroy the whole free market capitalistic system? Just have the state set all the rates comrade citizen! People line up at the gas stations with lower prices to get a better deal.That's the point. I have a good idea ;ets set your salary at zilch which is not any lower then a stay-at home-mom salary. That will make it fair.Defeat and destroy this bill.

Good work, Comrade. Your support for the central management and control of the economy in our carefully regulated workers' paradise is a move toward the greater good of our socialist State of Michigan. The members of the Politburo will applaud your concern -- but the free citizens of Michigan certainly do NOT!

What ever happened to supply and demand and free market? We don't need government controling every aspect of our lives.

I live in St. Joseph (LaSata's district) and it disgusts me to see that he's a big buddy of price control.

Call me stupid but perhaps someone that sells gasoline at a lower price is more efficent (aka. because they have learned methods to reduce their costs).

Therefore when people claim that these producers are producing below cost they are right. They do produce below the costs of their inefficent competitors but not below what it costs them.

My only regret is that the representative is termed out of the house. I would have enjoyed volunteering for his opponent in 2004.

LaSata is not alone. Indeed he is joined by several "conservatives" who demonstrate their thirst for special interest money has overpowered their limited government "principles." Among these are Ken Bradstreet, Dave Robertson, and Alan Cropsey. The others are all garden variety statists doing just what one would expect - using the authority of government to feather their nests by catering to a well-heeled special interest: the service station lobby.

This assault on free markets was cosonsored by: Joseph L Rivet , Susan Tabor , Larry Julian , Rich Brown , Dale Sheltrown , Barbara A Farrah , John Pappageorge , Jennifer Elkins , Gary Woronchak , Jerry O Kooiman , Edward J Gaffney , Daniel S Paletko , Stephen F Adamini , Randy Richardville , Scott Hummel , John Stahl , Barb Vander Veen , Doug Spade , Mike Pumford , Paul Condino , Shelley Taub , Dave Woodward , Ken Bradstreet , Sandra Caul , John J Gleason , Michael G Sak , Lauren M Hager , Jack D Minore , Rick Shaffer , Paul Gieleghem , Judy Emmons , David Palsrok , David B Robertson , and Steve Tobocman.

In the Senate, SB 519 is the same bill, introduced by Mark Schauer and cosponsored by Michael Prusi , Irma Clark-Coleman , Raymond E Basham , Ron Jelinek , Alan L Cropsey , Burton Leland , Jim Barcia , Tom George , Michelle McManus , Tony Stamas , Valde Garcia , Samuel Thomas III.

Before commenting on the world of gasoline pricing, it would probably be beneficial if you understood what is meant by below cost. You obviously have no clue how gasoline pricing works.

And you, my friend, have little respect or understanding of how free markets actually work. Your response to the 79th district citizen suggests that you believe that Meijers or Walmart do not have the right to sell gas below the wholesale price they pay for it. They may do so on occasion - and that is none of your or Rep. LaSata's business. The practice is called "loss leader," and every grocery store coupon sheet that comes in your newspaper on Monday is filled with them. Would you ban these, also? The big retailers may be establishing a new way to sell gas. If they are successful it is because they benefit their customers. If smaller competitors are driven out of business, that is unfortunate, but they do not have the right to force us all pay more in order to save their jobs. If the big retailers later seek to exploit a dominant market position by raising prices too high, they will lose their market to new entrants who sell for less. A dynamic free market system creates winners and losers among sellers, but only winners among consumers. Government controls protect a handful of politically well connected special interests, and create a net loss for consumers and society. Why introduce a bill that harms constituents? Look at Rep. LaSata’s campaign finance contribution reports. And also those of Sen. Schauer, who has introduced the same bill in the Senate. You will see plenty of gas station money listed.

I suggested no such thing. The point that was made was, and I quote, "Therefore when people claim that these producers are producing below cost they are right. They do produce below the costs of their inefficent competitors but not below what it costs them." I suggested that since WalMart and Meijers don't produce fuel and since the discussion is about COST of fuel, some knowledge of the nature of fuel pricing would be beneficial. Your points are well taken, regardless of how short-sighted they might be. Who will compete with Wal-mart after they've eliminated the competition? How will the consumers benefit then? They won't benefit and you, my friend, will pay the price. Before you get back on the box about free markets in this country, read the history of anti-trust and anti-compete legislation in this country.

They buy items and produce items dirt cheap from China/mexico. But when they (corporate bosses) choose to live here and reap the benefits, such as USDA safety inspections-sending their kids to public schools. Then these same bosses send your jobs overseas and pay no taxes into our system. Why are we tolerating this! If they want to take their business's to china or Mexico fine-lets legislate their citizenship away and send them a free plane ticket out of here. To live here in the USA and enjoy all the perks and benefits and then to not pay the taxes is stealing! from you and me!. Its like going out to dinner with 8 people and we split the bill, but lo and behold how would you feel if someone wanted to cheat out of paying?

Cheap Walmart gas will never hurt consumers. There is no such thing as a monopoly that government doesn't enforce. See this example:

Mom's gas station: price $1.60, cost $1.50
Walmarts: price $1.49, cost $1.45
Before Walmarts I paid $1.60. After I pay $1.45. How do I lose?

Mom's goes out of business. No one can make any money except Walmart. Walmarts raises prices to $1.50, and no one can make any money at $1.50, so Walmart keeps the whole market. I pay $1.50. I'm still ahead of Mom's $1.60.

Evil Walmart realizes that no one else is selling gas. Eureka! A monopoly! It gouges the poor consumer by raising price to $1.70 (or $4.50, etc.). Mom's decides to reopen because she can get gas at $1.50, sell it profitably as low as $1.60. I go to Mom's and pay $1.60. The only loss I'd have is the gas I'd have to buy while waiting for Mom to reopen.

This legislation attempts to keep Walmart from selling gas at any different price than the state decides. I'm sure that the people on the new state gas price commission will have decades of experience in the proper pricing of gasoline. In their infinite wisdom, the state decides on $1.80. Or $2.50. Or $1.00. Who the hell knows? And what are you going to do about it?

If Walmart tries to gouge you, you can ignore them and go to Mom's. If the state says that they BOTH must have to have high prices, where to you go (besides broke)?

Cheap Walmart gas will never hurt consumers. (It depends on where the consumer lives. In 2001 Walmart moved their worldwide purchasing headquarters to China and are the largest importer of Chinese goods in the US, purchasing
over $10 BILLION of Chinese-made products annually. Products made mostly by
women and children working in the labor hell-holes China is famous for and eeking out an existence for pennies per week.)

There is no such thing as a monopoly that government doesn't enforce. (Wrong. At least Bill Gates, Microsoft, and the Department of Justice would seem to disagree)

Mom's gas station: price $1.60, cost $1.50
Walmarts: price $1.49, cost $1.45 (Wrong. Walmart pays the same price for gas as Mom's they just sell it below cost.)
Before Walmarts I paid $1.60. After I pay $1.45. How do I lose?

Mom's goes out of business. No one can make any money except Walmart. Walmarts raises prices to $1.50, and no one can make any money at $1.50, so Walmart keeps the whole market. I pay $1.50. I'm still ahead of Mom's $1.60. (Wrong. Walmart can't make money at $1.50 either so they raise the price to $1.60 the day after Mom's closes.)

Evil Walmart realizes that no one else is selling gas. Eureka! A monopoly! It gouges the poor consumer by raising price to $1.70 (or $4.50, etc.). Mom's decides to reopen because she can get gas at $1.50, sell it profitably as low as $1.60. I go to Mom's and pay $1.60. The only loss I'd have is the gas I'd have to buy while waiting for Mom to reopen. (Wrong again. Mom's took a pretty good beating the last time. Had to file bankruptcy. Doubtful they'll be too anxious to do it again. Besides, if they did Walmart would once again start selling below cost until they really learned their lesson. Also, the employees that used to work at Mom's now all work at Walmart making as much as $7.22 per hour!!!).

This legislation attempts to keep Walmart from selling gas at any different price than the state decides. I'm sure that the people on the new state gas price commission will have decades of experience in the proper pricing of gasoline. In their infinite wisdom, the state decides on $1.80. Or $2.50. Or $1.00. Who the hell knows? And what are you going to do about it? (Wrong once more. This legislation decides a minimum and maximum over cost that can be charged. Prices are set by the commodities markets, not the state).

If Walmart tries to gouge you, you can ignore them and go to Mom's. (No you can't. They have the only station in town) If the state says that they BOTH must have to have high prices, where to you go (besides broke)?

I really wish you folks would take the time to understand how gas pricing works. In the end, saving one dollar on a tank full of gas is probably worth it to you to see your neighboorhood business go under. Not to mention those poor folks in China. Go Walmart!!!!