Michigan Votes Forum

Introduced in the Senate on March 20, 2003

Click here to view bill details.

Another chance to get goverment out of our lives. Let the decision to wear a helmet be up to the rider not a mandate. Michigan is surrounded by freedom of choice states. Motorcyclists are required to carry insurance, we are not a public burden. Any argument to support helmet laws can easily be used to support helmet laws for cars.

im a avid motorcyclist for 20 plus years
ive been a licenced cyclist for 15 years
and never had a safty training class back then you went to sec of state they tested you and away you went. i would need to take a class under new laws?

even if they did mandate a training class requirement you ( and I) no longer can take it because we already have our cy endorsments, and the advanced class has been eliminated, they plan to eliminate the basic class too.

I am a FIRM believer that those who RIDE should DECIDE. Let's stop screwing around and pass the Repeal of the Helmit Law.

when will this get voted on?

Dont know. hopefully sometime this year. it would be nice to have a choice.

I will carry a copy of "People of the City of Wayne" vs Earnest F. Berthet. This is dated Feb.7, 2003. The law is uninforceable!! Read it and print it yourself on the MI ABATE homepage.

For the sake of it, let freedom ring already, let's join all the other freedom of choice states and let those of us who ride decide!

The senators in the transportation committee, and their email addresses (incase anyone would like to comment to them that they favor passage of this bill) are as follows:
Sen. Basham at: SenRBasham@senate.michigan.gov
Sen. Gilbert at: SenJGilbert@senate.michigan.gov
Sen. Goschka at: SenMGoschka@senate.michigan.gov
Sen. Kuipers at: SenWKuipers@senate.michigan.gov
and
Sen. Leland at: SenBLeland@senate.michigan.gov

There is a warning lable inside my "D.O.T." approved helmet. The warning lable clearly states that wearing this garment may cause death and or serious injury at speeds of 25 mph,or less!!! Helmets snap brain stem's, impair your vision and ability to hear, HELMET'S, it's more harmful than you think!!!

ANY motorcycle rider, including people who hope to get their motorcycle endorsement, can take a motorcycle safety class.
The certificate issued to the rider who successfully completes such a class is good for a discounted insurance rate from every insurance provider that I know of. This certificate is good for a discount for 5 years. Beyond that period it must be renewed for a discount to be offered. As far as I know, complettion of the course is a one time affair, once done, you'd be fine.
Support of Safety requirements.
As with all legislative actions, there must be give and take. The requirement of completion of a motorcycle safety class should be included, to represent a rider's willingness to ride safely. Freedoms are both offered and earned. Just as we are free to enjoy "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" we cannot use that freedom to kill another man. We EARN our freedom by acknowledging that. I am more than willing to take a safety course again to prove to the state that I can practice and apply safety standards to riding a motorcycle. The question is, do you want the right to 'ride free' to be handed to you, or do you want to know that everyone out there who is riding without a helmet has earned that right? Even moreso, that they deserve to have it.
You can drive a car, you've proved it.. to ride freely without a helmet, I press the same charge to you, prove you can do it safely.

I believe that you should prove you are safe enough to operate a motorcycle without a helmet. You can't have a license do drive a car after repeated D.U.I. convictions. On the same note, a rider should not have the ability to operate a motorcycle without a helmet if an excessive number of points is present on his/her license. When a judge sees 10 points on your record, 5 speeding offenses of 10 MPH (or more) over the limit, or similar offenses, do you think that judge believes for a second that a 'safe' person is standing in front of him? I don't.
You want to ride without a helmet, prove that you are not posing a larger danger to yourself. If you love to speed, are dumb enough to get into multiple accidents within a certain period or do anything else to rack points up onto your license, you need are a special case, you should not be able to 'ride free.' You should have to prove that you are clean enough earn the privelege. 'nuff said

And it's "helmEt", spell it right or stop trying to sound intelligent in the first place.

Let's let freedom ring and prove that we are the best state. Modify the law to say that you must take a class to prove your worth. If you care enough to take the class, are competent enough to pass the class, you are able to prove to the state and it's people that you are aware of the risks and able to ride safely enough to have the privelage of riding without a helmet. Let's not forget another important factor, eye protection, mandate that it must be worn if a rider choses to abstain from wearing a helmet at any speed above 35 mph. (just as the current law mandates eye protection be present with all helmet types at speeds above 35 mph.)

Naturally any helmet can kill at speeds of 25 mph or less. Saying helmets impair vision is a load of manure. the helmet is so close to your eyes (with a full face and a partial face shield) that it allows the driver to see all objects in the field of vision where the head is pointed. Nothing jumps up at you from the road surface that you did not see coming. Nothing falls on you from above that you were not aware of. Seeing ahead is of prime importance, and that's all you need. Aside from that, your peripheral vision won't save you. Seeing out of ONE eye does not afford a person BINOCULAR VISION (depth perception).. so you might see a vague shape, but you won't know how far away it is. Further more, the Rods (which see black and white) and the Cones (which see color) of the eyes are fixed and unmoving, when the pupil rotates, you use more rods than cones to see images with peripheral vision. With a lower number of cones to create clarity, even an individual with excellent vision will see a blur. You will be afforded better ability to see light and dark, but no distinguish shapes. Riding on the 3rd lane (one from left most) of a 4 lane freeway at night, I look for headlights, or the indication of them, in my mirrors and on the road next to me before changing lanes. This can be done with out even turning my head and helmet. A driver who is constanly scanning (as the secretary of state recommends) is aware of other vehicles on the road... it's that simple.

Helmets block road noise! (gasp)

This statment really makes me wonder who comes up with this stuff. Yes, a helmet reduces the rider's ability to hear in some cases. At the same time, the benefits of sound deadening in a helmet must be explored. Rapid pressure changes in and around the ear caused by the rush or turbulent air, at highway speeds for example, causes audible noise in the ear. This pressure change is also damaging to the rider's ears, as sounds of great intensity are percieved. Don't believe it? Have someone flick your ears all day to make you more aware of what's going on around you. At the same time, plug your nose and mouth and pressurize your ear constantly, this is not only painful, but damaging to the inner workings of the ear. Many motorcycle riders who ride without a helmet wear ear plugs (a wise idea) to prevent this effect. Do you think that would help or hinder a rider's hearing? Truth is, a helmet allows dissipation of road noise at high speeds, ability to ride in rain, and reduced sensitivity (facially) to dust/grime from other objects falling from vehicles (ever ride behind a gravel hauler at 55 mph?)

Helmets Snap Brain Stems

Um.. lemme think here, no. This scenario is commonly referred to as "The fallacy of Compostion" basically, if A happens, and B is present.. B must be the cause. An example would be, a Shaman does a rain dance every spring, a period of time later, rain comes and allows plants to grow. Did the Shaman cause the rain? NO (duh).. you need to realize that in any incident where the brain stem of a rider snapped, it was due to a set of conditions. That is, he was probably flying off of his motorcycle and landing on his head. Now, if I flew off my bike at a given speed, and landed on my head WITH OR WITHOUT a helmet, I'd prolly be in bad shape. If I didn't have a helmet and I survived, the facial reconstructive surgery to restore my face/head would need to be intensive. That assumes you were able to survive a flying off of your motorcycle at X speed, and lived to have your face repaired. With a Helmet, these problems are partially averted. Having died wearing a helmet, I'd know that at least my family would be able to have an open casket funeral, as my face would likely still exist.

All riders of proven skill and safety should be able to ride without a helmet. BUT THE FACTS STAND. Don't state one side of the argument and expect everyone to march along and parade your cause. I've ridden 1,000 miles in a day, and I wouldn't dream of doing it without a helmet. I've ridden in 32 degree weather, and I wouldn't dream of doing it without a helmet. I've ridden in rain, snow, small hail, and had a chunk of wood (a piece of a 2 by 4 actaully) bounce right off the dead center of my helmet. In all of these cases, I am glad I had a helmet on. I wouldn't mind the right to ride to the store or zip around town, or even go on the occasional freeway trip without a helmet, but if I did so, I'd know the RISKS and the FACTS about what I was doing before hand.

Please don't make blatantly dumb statements like "helmets obscure vision, impair hearing, and snap brain stems" it only makes me believe that every other person who wants to ride next to me without helmets mysteriously stopped their education in the 3rd grade.

Wow.....that was alot of info!
I've ridden many times with, and without a helmet. My experience has been that when I'm not wearing one all of my senses are sharper. I can see and hear better, and I feel more alert.

Why should the decision to ride with or without a helmet be made by anyone but the rider? As a licensed rider I am fully aware of and accept the responsibility for the choices I make. REPEAL THE HELMET LAW!

Now, put on YOUR helmet. Then be quiet.

Hey Buddy, ever had a speeding ticket? Nah ... your probably that guy who is always drving 5 mph under the speed limit in the fast lane. Because YOU know what is best for everybody else.

the basic riders course under this year has basically been limited to those who do not have the cy endorsment. so far it looks like the program (at least the basic course) has been approved for next year. the advanced course so far has still been cut.
are you a member of abate?

what happens when a cager whos got a stero that you can hear before you see him(could be a good thing)and a cell phone stuck to his/her ear and is sitting so low in the seat you can barley see his eyes over the door trying to look cool pulls out in front of us because he "didnt see me"
motorcylist have been killed by cagers who "didnt see them" and the only thing that happend to several of them (not just in this state) was basically 90 days in jail. or nothing at all. but I suppose you think thats our fault.
Everyone should realize one thing. you bitch and moan about having to pay for injuries sustained if we do not wear our helmets. why dont you bitch about seatbelts, prison inmates medicare, and any one who has medical insurance, car accidents and anything else that you are already paying for (you know like a cople of buildings on the east coast. yes your paying for that to insurance companies take no losses.)YOU PAY FOR EVERYTHING NOT JUST YOURSELF. insurance is a pool of everyones money bikers included.we all pay for each other.

That should be "enough" then as well and for the same reason....

i basicaly agee with more than you think but no one mentioned fatigue from the weight of the helmet i ride with one under protest because i dont want to be pulled over and i cant afford the fines i can hardly afford to ride but i did ride once with out it and it was great my neck didnt hurt i do believe in eye protection that dose protect you and others from you if you got hit in the eye by any thing ill allways wear safty glasses but i would like to choose weather or not to wear my helmet

I have contacted Rep. Jason Allen who serves our Northern Michigan district. I asked him how he was going to vote regarding the helmet law. He never answered me.
Now, in my experience, when a politician does not answer you, one can expect that he or she does not support your point of view. I hope I'm wrong.
I represent several motorcycle riders, Vietnam Veterans, and voters.
Let's amend this law, now!!
James Leinbach
Posen, Michigan

Many of our ancestors came to this country to escape governments that opressed them in one way or another. In fact, many still do. In America, many of us expect to be able to do what we want when the risk only affects ourselves. Does anyone expect the insurance lobbies to persuade lawmakers to pass laws limiting our choice of what model car we ALL must drive because one is ruled the safest by some agency? If your car isn't that particular one, you are ticketed for taking the risk yourself? No one needs to argue that a person wearing a helmet will probably better survive an accidental ANYTHING than one who is bareheaded. Does that mean the state should dictate that we ALL wear helmets ALL of the time? The risk needs to be the individual's to assess. This IS America, remember.

I believe in freedom of choice as long as I am not hurting or offending anyone. The choice of wearing a helmet should be up to the person on the motorcycle. I will never vote for anyone who supports mandatory helmet law!! God would not make us wear a helmet, He gives us a free will to choose what we want and He is behind us as long as it is not sin. Not wearing a helmet is NOT a sin!!!! But taking a bribe from an insurance company IS!!!

These laws only help the profits of the insurance companies. They don't care one single bit about you or me, all they want is money. They just put it under "we love kids" or "kids Safe" so as to decieve the public. And we buy right into it. I have a great Idea. Repeal the mandatory auto insurance requirement. Then listen to them squeal.

If 25 years and over a quarter million miles of riding without an accident qualifys.

Now with this new oppressive law I would have to suffer this madated extortion? Why? So I can listen to the instructor brag about his extensive accident history and how the helmet has saved his life all those times? Rediculous. I have better things to do with my time.

Even the passenger has to take a safety class? Nice industry farming people against their will, what's your cut? Maybe they don't want to learn how to ride a bike just to be a passenger.

I don't know what country you came from (Canada?) but in this country the government doesn't "give" us freedoms. The bill of rights is official recognition that they can't take freedom away. Your view says it's ok if they take freedoms as long as they allow us to buy them back.

what happins next and when will there be a vote on this bill

I do not for one minute believe that the average bike owner is without adequate insurance-as the State of Michigan would want you to believe. I know of no biker who is without insurance. The State of MIchigan infers that the biker injuries cost this state monies. I say that may have been true in '69 but, not now!
Woldoog

It is quite clear you spend more time reading theories than riding, if you are so educated, you know that NO theory is absolute, and I can gurantee we will never be riding side by side, your response drips of " weekend warrior" I'll bet you own a UN-DESIRABLE bike for every lame reason you can think of. Go back to the Library and leave the choice of helmets up to the people who really ride.

The cause of death in laymans terms was due to the helmet snapping the brain stem, the rider hadn't landed on their head, this was not speculation, it was a fact. You can not legally drive a car with a helmet on why? because it impairs your vision, and ability to hear. Fact.A personel friend was asked by his doctor if he wore head gear for work, and he replied, no, I've been riding for 24 yrs and wear a helmet. The strap had caused permanent vascular damage leaving small spider web like veins on the side of his neck. Why is everyone so against the freedom of choice? You proudly exspressed how you feel safer with a HELMET, I HAVE TO JUMP IN LINE ON YOUR PARADE AND CAUSE? WHETHER I FEEL SAFE DOING SO OR NOT? Theres where you are wrong, My rights as a citizen of the USA clearly states I can believe what I choose, key word there thats what made this country great, personel freedom from dictaters like Hitler, Sadam, etc. Forcing people to do things for who's common good? Doesn't sound like you would like it so much if the shoe was on the other foot and it became Illegal to ride with a helmet, like it is in a car, you'd be crying all the reasons why you should be able to wear one if you wanted, annlyze that. Please respond to this oh educated one.

Let riders choose

Howdy:

I hope you are all well.

I would just like to add that I am in support of letting people make their own choices regarding helmet usage. This bill seems to be a good step.

Best regards, tony
Northville, MI

The way I see it, if people who ride bikes should wear helmets so should the people on Jet Ski's. While we are at it, how about manditory life jackets for people on boats.

life jackets are mandantory dummy

Right you are. I'm sorry I didn't explain it well enough for you. Mandatory to have on the boats but not for the person to have on. So lets start wearing life jackets while out on the boat.

how about peapole in convertables or sand rails ????

then why is it illegal to wear one in your car

Not long ago our government passed a law that allowed individuals their "right to choose". Since then, many, many women have legally exercised their right to choose. After all, it's their body, nobody else has the right to say what they do with it. The same logic should apply to motorcycle riders, we should be afforded the very same "right to choose". In our case, it is still our body, and no other person is harmed by our decision one way or the other. Please urge your Senators and Congresspersons to recognize that motorcyclists should also have the right to choose.