Michigan Votes

2007 House Bill 4262 (Revise prison time off for good behavior )

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  • Introduced by Rep. George Cushingberry on February 13, 2007, to revise provisions giving prisoners good behavior “credits” that are considered at parole hearings, and recalculate the release and parole eligibility dates accordingly. This would allow earlier releases for some prisoners, within the context of Michigan's "truth in sentencing" laws.
    • Referred to the House Judiciary Committee on February 13, 2007, where the bill remains. In other words, there has been no further action on the bill since it was referred to this committee. Whether a committee takes up a bill is at the discretion of the committee chair, in this case Rep. Paul Condino, D-Southfield.

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Comments

Introduced by Rep. George Cushingberry on February 13, 2007. New Comment

1) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
Everyone be prepared they are proably gathering at their internet cafe getting ready to bombard us thier views.
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2) They? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
There is no "they" its just him and his sick mind!
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3) yep, g-ma. we're just [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
having a nice cup of coffee, mulling over how uninspiring your support for this bill has been.

you haven't even TRIED to sway us from our opinion. if YOUR way was better, you would have been able to convince us of it. but you hadn't.

by the way, we aren't the ones you have to convince, it's YOUR LEGISLATORS. they have let this bill die in committee.

it has no hope of ever seeing the light of day as long as the chairman of the committee is afraid to touch it.

the death of this bill has been a 'DONE DEAL' since february of last year. your cackling has been a waste of breath and computer time. but it HAS been entertaining.

you and the troll have brought many laughs here at the internet cafe, and a several places of work.

why do you persist on supporting a bill that has died in committee a year ago? that is as big of a mystery as why you supported it at all. you never did say.

now that your loved one is out of prison, your 'passion' for the subject has cooled, you have become more 'civilized' and less 'rabid'.

also, amazingly, once your loved one was freed, the troll became suddenly silent. it seems he played the part of 'rebel without cause OR clue'.

all here wish you well, despite the fact that you wish harm upon us. we have decided to give you the 'DON QUIXOTE' AWARD.

it is given to the person who tilts with windmills while thinking that they are slaying dragons.

while we won't say that ALL of your efforts have been wasted, MOST have.

have a good life with your loved one, as long as he is out.

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4) DUMB! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
ANOTHER DUMB ANSWER!!!!
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5) AGAIN! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
Never do you address the info or sources I posted you came straight here to seek out G-Ma and try to argue with her.As for the internet cafe....there is one but its in your mind as are all those big time supporters you brag about!
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6) G-MA [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
Thanks for your support. I have been trying really hard not to argue with him.
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7) Questions [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
He ask for info and he asked for sources.I gave him both AND proved him to be a liar but he never addressed any of it.That in itself should show you the type of person he is! Also he brags of his GOOD FRIENDS but you dont see them here. I think he is ONE SICK MAN who is very dangerous to others.I would not be surprised if we were to read about him in the future and it would not be positive reading!
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8) dear grandmother. [by crazycajun on May 15, 2008]
we, and i DO mean WE, have treated you with respect, even when you didn't deserve it. and now you are calling us SICK?

EVEN DANGEROUS???

who is it that is advocating releasing dangerous inmates en masse?

it's YOU. that is an inherently dangerous thing to do, yet it is your goal.

this bill contains NO GUARANTEES against recidivism, i'd personally like to see one.

this bill contains NO GUARANTEES against a felon 'upgrading' to murder. i'd personally like to see one.

this bill contains NO GUARANTEES providing for OTHER CUTS IN PRISON SPENDING like UNIONS. i'd personally like to see one.

this bill contains NO GUARANTEES against prison costs going up due to a SIMPLE SWIPE OF THE BUDGET PEN. i'd personally like to see one.

now, g-ma, and crew, we have done nothing dangerous, you have. yet you call us dangerous.

how hipocritical. how leftist. how typical.

no wonder your own party won't back this bill.

have a nice day and go enjoy your loved one's freedom.
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9) G-MA [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
Crazycajun says he and all his alter egos treat G-Ma with respect shall we go back and read some of his posts? I won't bother everyone with that you have all read them before. The ego that posts under UBER-LIBERAL is the one with the sick mind and the one who needs help. You want guarantees which have nothing to do with this bill and even if they did nobody can make 100% guarantees. The rest of your post is just one of your usual, HO_HUMS.
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10) gee, grandmother. [by crazycajun on May 15, 2008]
just cuz we want to keep inmates in prison for their full term doesn't mean we're dangerous, or that UBER-LIBERAL is an alter ego of mine.

any more than the TROLL is an alter ego of YOURS.

now, if all you have to do is bitch about us, you must have no reason to support this bill.

you SAY you have provided us with answers and references. i haven't seen any, and i just got finished looking back as far as this thread goes.

please provide them for us again. if you TRULY support this bill, even though it is dead, you won't mind INFORMING others as to why.

if YOU can't find a reason why, neither can your representatives.

good luck on that.
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11) i'm glad you think i'm [by uber-liberal on May 15, 2008]
a figment of someone's imagination.

i have a voice.

i have a pulse.

i have a vote.

i have a brain that i use much more often, and much more effectively than you do.

i also don't care WHAT you believe, as long as you don't believe in releasing inmates, or anything else harmful to the state of michigan.

that would make you one of those domestic ENEMIES of the state that your representatives swore to protect the state constitution from.

that's why they don't want anything to do with this bill, and why they let it die quietly in committee.

better luck next time.

with love...

uber-liberal.
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12) Copy and Paste [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]


30) Fact [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
The fact is he wants us to argue with him and we will not! He wants us to stay on topic so we will argue with him and we didnt.From what I have read of his postings lately he needs alot of help to sort through his anger. He does not just hate ALL inmates he hates EVERYONE who even knows or has a family member who is a inmate! ALL inmates are not the same.....as he thinks.The people he described need to spend a long time in prison....other inmates dont.
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31) the people i describe are [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
95 percent of the prison population.

what now?
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32) Now? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
Now your lying!
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33) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
Again popping off at the mouth without thinking.It shows your just wanting to argue about anything.
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34) as if you [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
would know.

but of course, you THINK you do.


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35) I KNOW YOUR A LIAR! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
TOTAL PRISON AND CAMP POPULATION
BY OFFENSE TYPEa
Calendar Year Total Nonassaultive Percent of Total Drug Percent of Total Assaultive Percent of Total
1991 35,895 9,297 25.9% 5,826 16.2% 20,772 57.9%
1992 38,244 9,648 25.2 6,164 16.1 22,432 58.7
1993 38,553 8,979 23.3 5,632 14.6 23,922 62.1
1994 40,501 11,531 28.5 5,467 13.5 23,138 57.1
1995 41,112 11,061 26.9 5,262 12.8 24,337 59.2
1996 42,362 11,380 26.9 4,038 9.5 25,264 59.6
1997 44,771 12,175 27.2 5,743 12.8 26,618 59.5
1998 45,879 12,114 26.4 5,799 12.6 27,664 60.3
1999 46,617 11,567 24.8 5,734 12.3 28,999 62.2
2000 47,718 11,704 24.5 5,620 11.8 30,165 63.2
2001 48,549 11,564 23.8 5,495 11.3 31,490 64.9
2002 50,591 12,341 24.4 5,485 10.8 32,552 64.3
2003 49,357 11,640 23.6 4,517 9.2 33,004 66.9
2004 48,594 11,089 22.8 4,339 8.9 33,166 68.3
2005b 49,377 11,168 22.6 4,329 8.8 33,880 68.6
2006b 51,454 11,927 23.2 4,457 8.7 35,070 68.2
a For offenders with multiple offenses, the offense with the largest minimum term is used.
b Senate Fiscal Agency Estimates
Source: MDOC Statistical Report
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36) CONCLUSION [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]

Overall, due to labor intensiveness, incarceration is an expensive program. Differences in employee costs are likely to be the primary
reason that Michigan's incarceration costs differ from those of other states. Whether this means they have a different number of
employees due to different proportions of lower-security inmates, inmate-to-employee ratios, or facility layouts, or various employee costs
due to different regional, contractual, or statutory requirements, it is difficult to provide a simple explanation of overall discrepancies.
The most effective way to reduce incarceration costs significantly is to have fewer prisoners. This would reduce the number of employees,
which would lower the base from which employee costs grow. Additionally, fuel, utility, food, and medical costs would be reduced. If the
number of employees or the amount of employee salaries or fringe benefits were reduced, employee cost growth would start from a lower
base, but there would be no reduction in other incarceration costs. Conversely, if only nonemployee-related incarceration costs were
reduced, the reductions would address only what is already less than a quarter of the prison budget. For example, a 10% cut to
nonemployee-related incarceration costs would result in less than a 2.5% cut to incarceration costs. Incarcerating fewer prisoners can be
achieved by policies that reduce crime, reduce prison sentences, reduce sentence lengths, and/or increase the parole rate. In the long
4 "Fiscal Facts 2006", Iowa Legislative Services Agency, Fiscal Services Division, May 2006
5 Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, Monthly Fact Sheets
6 "Informational Paper 57", Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, January 2007
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13) so, michigan is [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
eight hundred times more LABOR INTENSIVE than texas???

texas inmates are fed well, michigan inmates aren't. why is that???

is someone STEALING THE MONEY???

you don't care, do you? of course not.


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14) G-MA [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
This conclusion is very true. The cost of an inmate maybe 30,000 Dollars a year but very little of that is directly spent on the inmate. Most goes to pay wages and benefits, utilites, etc... Where my grandson is the inmates over the last month or so have been complaining that their meals are getting worse and the portions are getting smaller. The population has increased dramatically, however the paroles have not. Have any of you heard anything about what maybe going on?
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15) so, g-ma. are the [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
wages and benefits the reason why your precious inmates are starving? it costs THAT MUCH MORE to pay a UNION GUARD in michigan than it does to pay a NON-UNION GUARD in florida or texas?

maybe the UNIONS have to go.

but, as a liberal, you won't allow that, will you?
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16) Meals [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
Yes, where my husband is the meals have been getting smaller and they have been running out of food for the meals. They have resorted to checking ID's for meals so no one goes through twice, yet they still run out of food. That $30,000 does not all go toward the inmates; it goes toward the salaries of the prison employees, their dry-cleaning, upkeep, etc. CO's get to eat for free when they are working.
Prisons are getting more and more over-crowded everyday yet paroles are not being granted. And taxpayers wonder why more is spent on incarceration than on education.
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17) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
They have talked about outsourcing the meals. Are they already doing this? My grandson has loss 8 lbs. in one month. Many of the inmates say they drink lots of water just to fill their stomaches to stop the hunger pains. If this is true it is a wrong that needs to be corrected. Michigan Protection Advocacy had to be called awhile back on the treatment of inmates at the Youth Correctional Facility in Baldwin. They may have to be called again.
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18) so, let's see... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
we pay 130.00 a day to house, clothe, and feed inmates, and it's not happening. why not?

what about governor granholm's system isn't working?

why aren't they being fed? they should be able to have steaks every day for that price.

what are the liberals in charge spending the money on?
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19) G-MA [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
He is not out yet he has a few more days. Why are you still here if this bill is so dead? You have nothing better to do right?
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20) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
I hope your post means you are leaving us. Good-bye have a nice life..
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21) G-Ma? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
As you can see he NEVER addressed any of the info I posted yesterday because he is full of it and was caught in his own lies! He came to this thread to look for you so he could argue some more...Once again the words he posted here have NO MEANING....A LOST SOUL! And you are right G-Ma,it sounds as though he could be very dangerous because as he said "his friends" have taught him to protect himself NEXT TIME. It almost sounds as if he is laying in wait.....
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22) hate has consumed him [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
which is often times what happens to victims, they tend to look at everyone the same as their attacker. That is just like someone being attacked by a person of a certain race and in turn making blanket generalizations about the whole race as a result. He needs help because it is only a matter of time before he ends up hurting someone who he "deems" in his paranoid mind is a threat to him. Then after he ends up in the system he soooooooooooooooo defends then he will trully see what we talk about, but for now he speaks from fear and hatred not a single word coming from fact, research, or logic.
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23) Source: [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
http://www.senate.michigan.gov/sfa/Publications/Issues/IncarcerationCosts/IncarcerationCosts.pdf
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24) CONCLUSION [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]

Overall, due to labor intensiveness, incarceration is an expensive program. Differences in employee costs are likely to be the primary
reason that Michigan's incarceration costs differ from those of other states. Whether this means they have a different number of
employees due to different proportions of lower-security inmates, inmate-to-employee ratios, or facility layouts, or various employee costs
due to different regional, contractual, or statutory requirements, it is difficult to provide a simple explanation of overall discrepancies.
The most effective way to reduce incarceration costs significantly is to have fewer prisoners. This would reduce the number of employees,
which would lower the base from which employee costs grow. Additionally, fuel, utility, food, and medical costs would be reduced. If the
number of employees or the amount of employee salaries or fringe benefits were reduced, employee cost growth would start from a lower
base, but there would be no reduction in other incarceration costs. Conversely, if only nonemployee-related incarceration costs were
reduced, the reductions would address only what is already less than a quarter of the prison budget. For example, a 10% cut to
nonemployee-related incarceration costs would result in less than a 2.5% cut to incarceration costs. Incarcerating fewer prisoners can be
achieved by policies that reduce crime, reduce prison sentences, reduce sentence lengths, and/or increase the parole rate. In the long
4 "Fiscal Facts 2006", Iowa Legislative Services Agency, Fiscal Services Division, May 2006
5 Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, Monthly Fact Sheets
6 "Informational Paper 57", Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, January 2007
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25) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
Republicians have always been big spenders but scream and holler when it comes time to pay the bill. Their mass incarceration drive has driven the cost of our prisons sky high, now their screaming about having to pay for it. They do not want taxes to go up, they do not want any inmates released. They have no reasonable solutions on how this can be done and still not either raise taxes or release any inmates. Releasing inmates is a reasonable solution if they earn good time credits that will help them get out a little earlier. Along with other reforms to help them get on their feet and support their families which will help them not to recommit. Bill 4262 can work.
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26) so, g-ma. once again... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
how do you pay for the OTHER REFORMS???

the only way a liberal knows how...

raise taxes and spend like a drunken sailor.


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27) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
Stop and think instead of popping off the first thing that comes to your mind. How would we pay simple by using some of the money we would save. Read the post above.
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28) Travelers relief??? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
Republicans can save money when it effects them!!!!

Several Michigan House Republicans are proposing a summer gas tax break.

Rep. Rick Jones, Rep. Paul Opsommer, Rep. Hoogendyk, Rep. Rick Shaffer and Rep. Neal Nitz said they want to eliminate the gas tax, which is currently 6 percent, from Memorial Day until Labor Day to help give travelers relief.

The gas tax suspension would help motorists save about a quarter per gallon.

Those against the tax relief said it would cost the state $260 million.
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29) Cut All Gas Taxes [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
The government makes more off every gallon than the "evil oil companies" do. You won't hear these guys telling you that.
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30) summer gas tax break? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
What a joke! But the cant figure out how to cut prison cost!
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31) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 11, 2008]
Happy Mothers Day to all you moms. I hope this year we see a decrease in our prison population and costs, and an increase in educating our young people.
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32) Happy Mothers day! [by sandie_221 on May 11, 2008]
May you all have a beautiful day and enjoy your family!
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33) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
Thanks all of you for well wishes. I will keep you posted on his progress. However I still would like to see prison reform and believe this bill is a step towards that. So I will continue to post in favor of this bill.
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34) Beautiful day [by sandie_221 on May 10, 2008]
I spent the day in Ionia today visiting my son.We really enjoyed the peacefull drive.
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35) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
It was a beautiful day. Went shopping with my two grand daughters, then came home and spent the afternoon with my oldest daughter. My two youngest grand kids went swimming in the pool. BRRRR!!! With blue lips they tell you its not that cold. My grandson and his girlfriend came over so we could take prom pictures, They were such a handsome couple. Yes my day was beautiful too Sandie, WE need to enjoy every minute of them. Have a Happy Mother's Day!!
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36) Swimming???? [by sandie_221 on May 11, 2008]
Kids are so funny! What area do you live in?
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37) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 11, 2008]
Swartz Creek Area.
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38) Nice area! [by sandie_221 on May 12, 2008]
I was just there a couple of weeks ago. My goddaughter had a basketball tournament at The Cage.Cant say its been warm enough to swim though....Crazy Kids!
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39) how nice... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
way to stay on topic.


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40) Thank you! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
Its better than some of yours.....
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41) Fact [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
The fact is he wants us to argue with him and we will not! He wants us to stay on topic so we will argue with him and we didnt.From what I have read of his postings lately he needs alot of help to sort through his anger. He does not just hate ALL inmates he hates EVERYONE who even knows or has a family member who is a inmate! ALL inmates are not the same.....as he thinks.The people he described need to spend a long time in prison....other inmates dont.
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42) the people i describe are [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
95 percent of the prison population.

what now?
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43) Now? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
Now your lying!
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44) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
Again popping off at the mouth without thinking.It shows your just wanting to argue about anything.
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45) as if you [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
would know.

but of course, you THINK you do.


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46) I KNOW YOUR A LIAR! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
TOTAL PRISON AND CAMP POPULATION
BY OFFENSE TYPEa
Calendar Year Total Nonassaultive Percent of Total Drug Percent of Total Assaultive Percent of Total
1991 35,895 9,297 25.9% 5,826 16.2% 20,772 57.9%
1992 38,244 9,648 25.2 6,164 16.1 22,432 58.7
1993 38,553 8,979 23.3 5,632 14.6 23,922 62.1
1994 40,501 11,531 28.5 5,467 13.5 23,138 57.1
1995 41,112 11,061 26.9 5,262 12.8 24,337 59.2
1996 42,362 11,380 26.9 4,038 9.5 25,264 59.6
1997 44,771 12,175 27.2 5,743 12.8 26,618 59.5
1998 45,879 12,114 26.4 5,799 12.6 27,664 60.3
1999 46,617 11,567 24.8 5,734 12.3 28,999 62.2
2000 47,718 11,704 24.5 5,620 11.8 30,165 63.2
2001 48,549 11,564 23.8 5,495 11.3 31,490 64.9
2002 50,591 12,341 24.4 5,485 10.8 32,552 64.3
2003 49,357 11,640 23.6 4,517 9.2 33,004 66.9
2004 48,594 11,089 22.8 4,339 8.9 33,166 68.3
2005b 49,377 11,168 22.6 4,329 8.8 33,880 68.6
2006b 51,454 11,927 23.2 4,457 8.7 35,070 68.2
a For offenders with multiple offenses, the offense with the largest minimum term is used.
b Senate Fiscal Agency Estimates
Source: MDOC Statistical Report
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47) CONCLUSION [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]

Overall, due to labor intensiveness, incarceration is an expensive program. Differences in employee costs are likely to be the primary
reason that Michigan's incarceration costs differ from those of other states. Whether this means they have a different number of
employees due to different proportions of lower-security inmates, inmate-to-employee ratios, or facility layouts, or various employee costs
due to different regional, contractual, or statutory requirements, it is difficult to provide a simple explanation of overall discrepancies.
The most effective way to reduce incarceration costs significantly is to have fewer prisoners. This would reduce the number of employees,
which would lower the base from which employee costs grow. Additionally, fuel, utility, food, and medical costs would be reduced. If the
number of employees or the amount of employee salaries or fringe benefits were reduced, employee cost growth would start from a lower
base, but there would be no reduction in other incarceration costs. Conversely, if only nonemployee-related incarceration costs were
reduced, the reductions would address only what is already less than a quarter of the prison budget. For example, a 10% cut to
nonemployee-related incarceration costs would result in less than a 2.5% cut to incarceration costs. Incarcerating fewer prisoners can be
achieved by policies that reduce crime, reduce prison sentences, reduce sentence lengths, and/or increase the parole rate. In the long
4 "Fiscal Facts 2006", Iowa Legislative Services Agency, Fiscal Services Division, May 2006
5 Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, Monthly Fact Sheets
6 "Informational Paper 57", Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau, January 2007
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48) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
I agree he needs help, big time...
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49) I am sick of it! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
His constant whinning because HE was a victim so all inmates owe him! All inmates are not violent offenders,not even 95% as he states above! Here is the information and the sources.Get over it,you were shot,you survived,your offender is serving his time and as you bragged your second offender is dead. GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE!
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50) i got help, g-ma. [by uber-liberal on May 13, 2008]
the good padre, Father Manny, taught me why i shouldn't give up.

my friends, the attorneys, one is now a politician, bless his little heart, taught me how to put this slab of wasted flesh behind bars.

and my closest friend, Crazycajun, taught me how to shoot, and how NEVER to be a victim again.

i buy a lot of rounds of coffee, just to try to pay them back. i know i never will be able to, they won't take my money.

we sit around and have coffee, and they come to my house for dinner and bar-b-que every so often, just to make sure i'm going to make it.

they, as a group, also taught me that my old way of thinking, like a classical liberal, just wasn't working. i've since learned the error of my ways.

i've risen abouve liberalism, that's why i chose the monicer 'UBER-LIBERAL'. ABOVE LIBERAL.

i've taken a step up.

i won't let your love of the accursed inmate bring me back down to where i was.

except for the scars, and the missing few feet of intestines, i'm healed. or as healed as i'm going to get.

i'm not physically healed, but i'm emotionally and mentally 100% better than i was the day i got shot.

you can't take away my anger, or my vigilance, nor can you take away my preparations, or my spirit to keep on fighting.

i COULD have given up that day and been a classical 'victim'. but i didn't.

i'm not going to give up when one of your released inmates attacks again.

i'm going to fight for my life, as i have before, and i'm going to win.

i think YOU should seek help for your displaced love for the inmate.
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51) you haven't really healed at all [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
in my opinion because you continue to carry around hate which is not a sign of healing. Terrible thing that happend to you, and the reality is that their are some people who do committ these heinous crimes, the fact of the matter is that they will NOT BE HELPED BY THIS BILL. Opposers of this bill only tactic still remains usinf the fear of murders and inmates such as these being released-this bill is not designated for those inmates get it through your heads. Have there been mistakes of released inmates YES was it because of this bill NO, does it mean that it would happen more often NO! Read the bill instead of just grouping every inmate into the same category-even the prisons don't do that even they sort prison into different levels based on offense, sentence, behavior while incarcerated, etc! What happend to you was obviously traumatizing and you are doing exactly what comes from a traumatizing event-hate everybody who you see as being the same as your attacker. The problem is that not every inmate is LIKE YOUR ATTACKER, and if they weren't charged with an assaultive crime then they cannot and should not be seen by YOU or the LAW as such! You need to find a new counselor and deal with your hate because it is not hurting your attacker, its hurting you and it is quite obvious by the hate that drips from every word you type that you are far from healed and definately should not be learing from Cajun or anyone else how to shoot anything-you are a big liability right now as well one with an unclear head never makes rational decisions. Everyo victim is not the same just like every inmate is not the same each one needs something different not a blanket punishment as you would like. Take your anger and try to get legislation passed that affects your type of attacker thats where your time should be spent-because this bill does not include your type of attacker.
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52) Yes! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
I could not have said it any better! Well written!
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53) So you tell me [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
what does ANY of this have to do with THIS bill?

Maybe you havent bothered to read it either....
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54) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
Read the poster's last sentence it tells you what it has to do with this bill, nothing. so why are you here?
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55) everything... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
according to g-ma, prisoners can't be released without the proper classes and preparations, which she says is impossible to get.

but that doesn't stop her from wanting inmates released early.

personally, i feel it is a slap in the face to the victims. they have been slapped enough already.
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56) personally.... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
I think you need help. What you write about on this thread and what this bill is about are two VERY DIFFERENT things.

READ THE BILL!


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57) G-MA [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
I agree. If you do not get help you may someday become the offender and someone else the victim.
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58) Great point G-Ma! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
I am begining to think the same thing!
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59) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I just wanted to share some good news for me with my friends on this site. My grandson was granted his parole and will be home soon.
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60) Coming Home.... [by sandie_221 on May 8, 2008]
When will he be home? What plans do you have? I know you are excited!
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61) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
He will be home the end of may. Plans no long range ones now. He wants to get a job. He wants to spent some time with his brothers. He will be home to go to his brother's graduation and open house. Just being home will be great for him , he has been in prison for four years And he is only 22. He will do ok. I will keep you posted sandie.
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62) hey g-ma... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 7, 2008]
wasn't it you that said that it was IMPOSSIBLE to get parole?

or was that a FABRICATION to get support for this bill???


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63) why must non supporters of this bill [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
take every little thing and try to twist it? The bottom line is that half of you garbage talkers have not even studied the bill nor the prison system to even be able to hold an intelligent conversation about it. This makes the fact that you are so hateful about this bill even more disturbing. One must READ READ READ something before they choose to COMMENT COMMENT COMMENT on it. Know of what you speak or don't. By saying it is almost impossible to be paroled the poster was telling the TRUTH. If you would research the statistics you would know it. Right now OVER 40% of the Michigan prison system is over their minimum, has finished required classes, and have a parole eligibility score making them ELIGIBLE for parole. Many of these 40% are denied even with a nonassultive record, no tickets, and a positive report from their counselor, with no explanation at all other than that they have been flopped for 18 months. Not to mention that the prison has become so overcrowded that new inmates are finding it near impossible to even get into their neccessary classes due to 3 year long or more waiting lists. The whole system is in need of investigation (which might I add is occurring because of discrepancies in the practices of your good ole parole board)and an overhaul. This bill will not affect those most heinous offenders wake up and read the bill, it will hoever aid those who have proven that they can follow rules, want another chance, and most of whom were NONVIOLENT OFFENDERS to begin with. The whole system needs fixing, maybe after we deal with this overgrowding we can also look at why certain "typically minority offenses" such as weed possession carry a heavier sentence in most cases then that of CHILD MOLESTERS............
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64) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
I agree. The reason they twist things around is so they can argue, this site is not the only one they do it on. I believe as another poster says THEY NEED TO GET A LIFE>>>
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65) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
Just quit your annoying antagonism. You have no clue what has been discuss here, just your narrow-minded views that you repeat over, and over. No solutions just keep incarcerating more and more people, but don't you dare raise taxes, because I don't want to pay for them. SOLUTIONS PLEASE!!! This bill will start the responsable decreasing of the prison population and decreasing the costs too.
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66) no it won't. [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
jennie has already raised your taxes with a simple stroke of the 'budget' pen.

you voted for her. make her stop.
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67) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
When you stop demanding incarcerating masses of people for such a broad catagory of crimes, that could be dealt without throwing them in prison for long, long times. This bill could help with this problem.
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68) Parole [by sandie_221 on May 8, 2008]
The factors considered by the parole board in making parole decisions include :

the crime for which the prisoner is serving

prior criminal record

institutional behavior and adjustment

programming

the parole guidelines score

any information obtained from the prisoner interview

information from victims and other relevant sources.


The parole guidelines score, mandatory for all prisoners eligible to be considered for parole, is a numerical scoring system designed to assist in applying objective criteria to any decision made by the parole board. Information used to calculate the parole guidelines score are the prisoner’s current offense, the prior criminal record, institutional conduct and program performance, age, mental status and statistical risk. Michigan law and departmental policy allows parole to be granted without interview if the prisoner’s parole guidelines score falls in the high guidelines category (+4 and above), provided the prisoner is not serving for a sex offense or a crime involving a death.
..................................................

Conversely a prisoner may be continued in prison without interview if the parole guidelines score falls in the low guidelines category (-13 and below). A full 30% of all cases fall into one of these two categories.



Parole for life sentences is more involved. Public hearings are required and input from victims, prosecutors and judges is considered. Changes to the law have made prisoners serving life under the drug lifer law eligible for parole as well. Paroles for life sentences require a vote of the entire parole board. Non-parolable life sentences require commutation by the governor.




Over the past 30 years an average of 8.2 prisoners per year, serving a life sentence, have been released through the lifer law or commutation process.




Recently a new law has revised parole eligibility for certain drug offenses. This means that some prisoners may be eligible for parole earlier than previously indicated. Corrections officials are currently identifying which inmates will be eligible for parole under the amended law.


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69) i understand this... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
but g-ma et al harped on for months about how IMPOSSIBLE it was to get paroled in michigan.

now we find that her loved one has finally managed to get paroled. imagine that...

miracle of miracles...

i too await news of his progress, and wish him well.
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70) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
His ERD was when he had served 1year 11Months. He was flopped the first time because he had not completed all his classes (the waiting lists are very long). The next time he was flopped was right at the time of the Selepak case, even though his crime was non-violent. So it is hard to get paroled. And I know of many others who have had an even harder time getting paroled.
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71) Its not a mircale.... [by sandie_221 on May 8, 2008]
Information used to calculate the parole guidelines score are the prisoner’s current offense, the prior criminal record, institutional conduct and program performance, age, mental status and statistical risk.

He must have went by the rules and guidelines set out before him as a inmate.

GOOD FOR HIM!

I agree,I would love to read about his progress. I sure hope you will post his progress for all of us G-Ma
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72) now that g-ma's [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
loved one has been paroled, we no longer hear about how IMPOSSIBLE it is to be paroled in michigan.

we have heard that for over a year.

it was the PRIMARY reason for support here on this bill. now, however, that reason has evaporated. so has the support.

amazing, isn't it???


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73) you are not very knowledgable [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
about the prison system are you??? If not my advice would be to RESEARCH before trying to start an argument. Most paroles being granted now are inmates who have been flopped AT LEAST ONCE most more than ONCE. They are being flopped for not finishing required classes which most times have waiting lists years long. With a prison system as large as Michigans how do you expect an inmate to get into a class that only accepts 12 inmates every six months, not to mention that when the inmate is moved to a different facility (which happens to EVERY inmate at LEAST once or twice during incarceration)they usually fall on the list because those inmates at the new facility may have less time to finish. Not only that but when some inmates go in front of the board with a score over +4, no tickets, a positive reccomendation from their counselors, and in some cases a non violent first offense they are being DENIED with no explanation. Want to know why????? Because the board has no EXPLANANTION as to why when the inmate fits all criteria for release-they are instead flopping him sometimes continuously for 18 months, then 12 months, then 6 months, etc. This is why a state committee is now investigating parole board practices!!!!
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74) STOP! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
You just cant stop can you? G-Ma still supports this bill!Did you see that she said it took 4 years to get parole on a 1 year sentence? You do the math!
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75) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
I am still here like it or not supporting this bill. I am not a quitter when I believe in something. And I believe in this bill.
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76) thanks, g-ma. [by uber-liberal on May 9, 2008]
you have provided proof positive that this bill is not needed.

your loved one got paroled.

all is sweetness and light.

the proponent's opinions have gone from visceral hatred of everything the parole board says and does to full, whole-hearted SUPPORT of the parole board.

even the troll has stopped posting. he's parked his 'troll's trawler' forever.

now that your loved one is out of prison, you no longer have a REASON to support this law, yet you say you will. what will be your reason to support it now?

your only 'complaint' is that someone called out a poster on using an abbreviation instead of using the 'telling term' of EARLIEST RELEASE DATE.

the only reason you supported this legislation is that it would bring an EARLIER release date for your loved one.

well, God, and life works in mysterious ways. despite your constant complaints about the parole system, it delivered your loved one into your waiting arms.

therefore, it MUST NOT need fixing as badly as you say.

your loved one got FLOPPED for a reason, yet you never said what that reason was. the SAME parole board that let your loved one out kept your loved one in.

i'd like to know why.

maybe it's something they were WORRIED about.

maybe it's something that we should STILL worry about.

by the way, you asked "who am I to decide how much punishment is enough?". well, i'll tell you.

i'm one of the people who pays the bills for his punishment, and who paid the price for being victimized by someone just like him.

i personally don't think that ANY punishment is too much punishment. i've had to live with being a victim for all this time, and i will continue to have to live with being a victim till the day i die. the memory of the incident is always fresh with me, and will never be forgotten, or forgiven.

don't even try.

i've made it a point to ATTEND ALL PAROLE HEARINGS for the peice of slime that shot me, just to make sure he doesn't ever walk the streets as long as i can help it.

by the way, i'm still trying to get the judge to issue a restitution order to make him pay for the hospital bills he made me run up.

THAT'S how much i want him punished.
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77) HMMMMMMMMMMM [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
On May 9 you Anonymous Citizen posted that G-Ma never said why her grandson got flopped but if you took the time to read and stop attaking you would see that she posted the following the day before you even asked....

COPY AND PASTED from this thread:

23) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
His ERD was when he had served 1year 11Months. He was flopped the first time because he had not completed all his classes (the waiting lists are very long). The next time he was flopped was right at the time of the Selepak case, even though his crime was non-violent. So it is hard to get paroled. And I know of many others who have had an even harder time getting paroled.
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78) we've been asking [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
for that information since october.

it's only taken her THIS LONG to give it to us.

all the while, she, or her alter ego, was whining about the impossibility of getting into those classes.

now that he is released, all is peachy and keen.

what a difference ONE RELEASED INMATE MAKES.

that's all she was after, and now that she has gotten it, your support from her has evaporated.

it doesn't matter, though, this bill is dead in committee.
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79) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
This is all lies.. You have never asked about him. I still support this bill. YOU NEED TO GET A LIFE>>>>
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80) Also [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
Please dont waste my time by bothering to point out my misspelled word either.
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81) PEICE???? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
Your the teacher?
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82) no, i'm not a teacher. [by uber-liberal on May 10, 2008]
but i learned how not to be victimized by slimeballs.

i learned how to handle the scum of the earth.

i have since been attacked again. the SECOND perpetrator isn't going to be paroled. he didn't live through the encounter.

his punishment was swift, certain, absolutely legal, and most fitting of the crime.

this exact same fate SHOULD have met the FIRST perpetrator, and every other perpetrator.

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83) and with the attitude and hate [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
that you carry around you will probably be joining one or the other of them soon. You need counseling quickly before you hurt someone.
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84) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
Why are these people after you? I just wonder if you make enemies easily, or go places you should not? Do you live in a high crime area?
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85) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
Can't you answer these qustions? Are your friends being good friends or just fueling the hate? What does being a liberal or republician, Etc. got to do with what happen?
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86) because as a [by uber-liberal on May 13, 2008]
liberal democrat, i thought and acted like a victim.

if you look like food, and act like food, you will be eaten.

i was anti-gun for no good reason, so i walked around unarmed. i let my liberal beliefs convince me that being unarmed was the right thing to do. it was really the stupid thing to do.

i thought that, as a liberal, that the state would nanny me, support me, and most importantly, be able to protect me. that was stupid also. it's MY responsibility and MY job to protect myself. i was neglectful in that duty thanks to the liberal mindset.

i also thought, as a liberal, that i was BETTER than everybody else, because i knew better how to nanny them, how to support them, and how to protect them. this was very stupid. what i failed to recognize was that not everybody NEEDED nannying, or supporting, or protecting. nor did i realize that i was supposed to be doing all those things FOR MYSELF, and that if we ALL did this for ourselves, we wouldn't need liberals.

now i know better, i've MOVED UP.

I'M ABOVE LIBERAL.

I'M UBER-LIBERAL.
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87) i also thought, as a liberal, that i was BETTER than everybody else??? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
HA!HA! YOU STILL DO! And the rest of your statement is just plain dumb! Including your sign in name!
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88) typical liberal [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
response..

non-existant wit shrouded in troll-like lack of intelligence.
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89) Dumb! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
Another DUMB statement!
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90) yes, g-ma is [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
just FULL of dumb statements...

but we put up with her anyway.

at least she has the troll shut away for the time being.
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91) guess again [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]

piss-ant TROLL

you can't help yourself

can you

always baiting individuals

never debating issues

that is the michiganvotes piss-ant TROLL style

whoever the piss-ant TROLL

might be today

is today's piss-ant TROLL the nutcase

or the goofy padre

or the reformed liberal

or just anonymous citizen

or are they all

one in the same

it doesn't matter

if the piss-ant TROLL

is one or many

it or they never bring anything of value

to the discussion picnic

they just mount obsessive campaigns

of personal attack

and answer worthless posts like this one

because as master baiters themselves

they can't resist tasting

what others dangle

that is how you know

the piss-ant TROLL

it's the one flopping around

in the bilge of my TROLL trawler

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92) Good to see you! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
Welcome back! The truth is the truth and you say it well!
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93) Troll???? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
And where is your supporter Crazycajun? He has probaly seen the truth that you are a CRAZY TROLL!
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94) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
UBER-LIBERAL is a very messed up person in his mind. If the rest of you so called friends lead him to believe what he says he sure don't need any enemies. If all of you believe this way you will all find yourselves offenders one day with victims of your own. And the bill we support won't help you get out early because you will be doing life without parole.
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95) there you go again, g-ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
wishing that we would be put in jail simply for disagreeing with you.

unfortunately for you, it's not against the law to disagree with a liberal JUST YET.

i don't know what makes you think that we will all have 'victims of our own' one day, unless you assume that we will all break the law like your loved ones.

most of us make our living off of the law, one way or another, you keep on forgetting that.

now, if you would like us to give UBER-LIBERAL bad advice, then we would have to charge YOU for it.

it's against our ethics to give bad advice, and it's agains the law.

now, i'm sure we can come up with SOME sort of charge for you, wishing us harm as you do... let's see....

perhaps ASSAULT.


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96) what most of us wish [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
is instead of trying to bait and argue when you haven't read the bill, researched the topic or the prison/parole system. You choose instead to downgrade every supporter or family member of an incacerated person and this bill with your pettiness and unintelligent factless useless comments. The poster was not so much wishing bad on the UBER LIBERAL as much as warning him that he needs mental evaluation before he becomes what he so fears and hates. Unclear mind makes bad decisions especially when stupid people teach them how to use a gun in the midst of their hate.
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97) their 'hate' has [by uber-liberal on May 14, 2008]
nothing to do with how, when, or where i use my gun.

it has already been successfully used to defend my life TWICE. and i'm still walking around.

you wish that some liberal attorney would sue me, to get all of my hard earned money, and eventually send me to jail for defending my life against a heinous criminal.

i'd say the one with the SERIOUS HATRED ISSUES is you, g-ma. the only ones i hate are the one's who are trying to kill me.

you hate, and wish harm upon those who oppose you idealogically. i'd say the one who needs some serious 'COUCH TIME' is YOU.

i've been through the legal system a few times, and i've been RIGHT EACH TIME. never once did i break the law to defend my life.

now, g-ma, if your hate has empassioned you to threaten myself and others, what will it drive you to? what are the limits of YOUR hate?

you hate those that are free, and those that feel the need to keep prisoners incarcerated for their ENTIRE SENTENCE, not set free with a hug and a kiss at the EARLIEST RELEASE DATE.

g-ma, perhaps YOU should volunteer to work as a nurse in a prison. where you would have to wear a bullet proof vest to just see a patient. where you would have to become proficient with a taser to just do your job.

i don't see YOU looking realistically at our prison system, and i doubt you ever will.
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98) DUMB!!! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
ANOTHER DUMB STATEMENT!
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99) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
I would like to know why he says I hate anyone. I have never used that word in any of my postings. Also he has never answered my questions of why does so many people hate him enough to try and kill him? Does he live or work in a high crime area? Does he go out looking for trouble? Why is he against this bill it has nothing to do with his situation? ??????????
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100) sorry to burst your bubble [by uber-liberal on May 15, 2008]
g-ma, but i was in my driveway for the first attack. my wife and kids got to witness it first hand. my kids still wonder why i didn't have a gun to fight back.

the second time i was at my office, and the circumstances were quite different. the bad guy didn't win.

the third time, i was leaving home and got 'carjacked' a couple of blocks from my house. the circumstances were CERTAINLY different. the bad guy didn't survive. i'm sure that all your sorrow goes out to the poor unfortunate murderer's family at the loss of the poor unfortunate murderer. this guy had THREE prior felonies, one was for the attempted murder of his wife.

these are the people YOU would like to see walking free.

this guy SHOULD have been in jail. but he was walking among us. just think of all the money i saved the state by NOT having to incarcerate him at over a hundred bucks a day.

by the way, what makes you think that only assaultive inmates should be incarcerated?

this guy was a drug dealer, a little down on his luck, he was only trying to get a car to make a dope score and kill a few rival dealers in another part of town.

by the way, he brought friends, who abandoned him immediately when they heard the gunshots and saw him go down. their expressions went from outright glee to outright terror.

they were HAPPY that the dope dealer was trying to kill me. but, when the tables turned, they were very scared that they would be next. three of the five are doing hard time now.

by the way, three of the five ratted on the other two, who are facing multiple warrants for their arrest. i'll guess they'll just have to 'lay low' for a while till the heat's off.


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101) G-MA [by Anonymous Citizen on May 15, 2008]
I do feel sorry for what happen to you, but you still need intensive help to deal with you anger and hate. If the area where you live is so dangerous why do you continue to live there and make your family live there. There is good people out here some of them are even ex-inmates. This bill still has nothing to do with what happen to you.
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102) by the way, g-ma. [by uber-liberal on May 15, 2008]
i live in MICHIGAN.

it's ALL dangerous.

two of the top three cities for murder rates are here in michigan.

i've lived in MANY cities, and the one i was shot in is a VERY small town. VERY low crime rate.

but it had some VERY bad people trying to deal drugs to my kids, and kill me in the process.

now, if you want that kind of bad people in YOUR neighborhood, then adopt them, and take responsibility for their actions.

otherwise, let them stay in jail.


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103) remember, g-ma. [by uber-liberal on May 15, 2008]
i HIRE ex-inmates.

i KNOW about ex-inmates.

i have ten or twelve working for me now. one of them is even part of the same gang as the group that tried to carjack me.

it IS about what happened to me, and trying to keep what happened to me from happening to other people. the next poor VICTIM may not be as well armed as i was.

you call it HATRED. i call it PUBLIC SERVICE.


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104) G-Ma? [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
As you can see he NEVER addressed any of the info I posted yesterday because he is full of it and was caught in his own lies! He came to this thread to look for you so he could argue some more...Once again the words he posted here have NO MEANING....A LOST SOUL! And you are right G-Ma,it sounds as though he could be very dangerous because as he said "his friends" have taught him to protect himself NEXT TIME. It almost sounds as if he is laying in wait.....
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105) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
I still stand behind this bill . There are many, many inmates who are way past their ERD. They would work hard to earn good time credits to get out . Read my post again I stated why he was flopped the first time. After that there was no real reason given.I am truly sorry for what happen to you . Yes he deserves to be punished for what he did to you, but do not take your anger and hate out on every inmate for his crime.
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106) or others... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
You are angry with everyone....PLEASE get some help!
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107) yes, g-ma. i do [by uber-liberal on May 10, 2008]
have to take it out on each and every inmate.

each and every one of me has a bullet hole.

that will NEVER go away.

the inmate who shot me thought it was funny.

he still does.


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108) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
So for what one person did to you,you hate everyone, and think every inmate needs to be punished the same as him? Have you ever seeked councelling? If not why?
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109) i got counceling [by uber-liberal on May 10, 2008]
g-ma. it taught me to quit being a victim.

it taught me to arm myself.

it taught me to prepare myself.

it taught me to quit thinking like a liberal.

it's a shame it took a bullet hole to the gut to have it happen.

predators should be punished, not coddled.

releasing them early coddles them.

stop doing that.


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110) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 10, 2008]
Liberals in fact nobody wants to be a victim of crime. But the hate and vengance you feel for EVERYONE needs to be addressed. Get some more help to deal with your feelings. Its not good to go through life with your feelings the way they are.
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111) i don't hate everyone [by uber-liberal on May 12, 2008]
g-ma. i just hate all criminals who think that victimizing people is the right thing to do.

you, on the other hand, LOVE all criminals who think that victimizing people is the right thing to do.

you, obviously, have never been victimized. never been attacked brutally in an attempt to take your life so you will not fight when the criminal takes the rest of your possessions and all of your money.

i was.

therefore, i hate those that do that.

all of them.

each and every one.

bar none.

your kind words of sympathy towards them will not dispel my feelings. they can't.

i just have to look down and see the scars from the savage attack.

we all know that each and every inmate has been found guilty of something. what you don't know is all the things they GOT AWAY WITH.

the guy who shot me admitted to police that he has 'something to do' with about sixty different crimes.

there are also about three murders with his fingerprints on them.

no, we should not coddle inmates, g-ma. we should punish them properly.

this guy deserves the death penalty. perhaps one day, he'll get it.




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112) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
No he deserves to be punished.
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113) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 12, 2008]
You continue to to hate and judge all inmates for what happen to you. I have been a victim also, I lost my only son to a drunk driver. But I can not live with hate, he would not want me to do that for the rest of my life. Some inmates victimized no one but themselves.
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114) are you working to get [by Anonymous Citizen on May 13, 2008]
the person who killed your loved one's time shortened too?


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115) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 14, 2008]
No he's been out for years.
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116) Congratulations G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
There are very few inmates who get parole the first time around therefore they are kept well past their ERDs. As G-Ma said, her grandson got flopped numerous times before finally being granted parole. Michigan is keeping inmates in way past their ERDs, claiming it is because they haven't "completed certain programs". It's not the inmates fault that they haven't completed the program, it is MDOCs fault because they have every prison so overcrowded that the waiting lists to get into programs are months long. As one CO told me, "its not his fault he didn't get into the program yet, its our fault".

As long as an inmate has attempted to enter the program, has followed all the rules set forth for him and has proven he can succeed, he should be rewarded with "good time" and be released.
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117) it's amazing that you [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
type ERD, as opposed to being HONEST ENOUGH to type EARLIEST RELEASE DATE.

do you TRULY believe that the inmate has been punished enough by that date?

oh, i forgot... you believe that the inmate SHOULDN'T BE PUNISHED.


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118) ERD [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
Yes that's what I type....now you have to pick on that?! The ERD that was given to my husband was the recommendation by the PAROLE OFFICER who did his pre-sentence investigation and agreed to by the JUDGE. So you are going to argue with them that that is not enough time? Wow, you do have a major power ego issue (who made you judge of all inmates)!! My husband nor his lawyer went before the judge and asked for 10 months (his ERD), that was what was given to him. Therefore they both must have felt that 10 months was enough time for him to serve at the least.
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119) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
HOW MUCH punishment does an inmate need. Who are you to say how much each inmate needs. The ERD is set by the courts, why even set it if it is not honored.I think the inmates deserve a chance to earn that ERD (notice I said EARN). This bill would address that.
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120) Always something! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
You just sound so stupid! So....what is your complaint now?
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121) Congratulations G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
There are very few inmates who get parole the first time around therefore they are kept well past their ERDs. As G-Ma said, her grandson got flopped numerous times before finally being granted parole. Michigan is keeping inmates in way past their ERDs, claiming it is because they haven't "completed certain programs". It's not the inmates fault that they haven't completed the program, it is MDOCs fault because they have every prison so overcrowded that the waiting lists to get into programs are months long. As one CO told me, "its not his fault he didn't get into the program yet, its our fault".

As long as an inmate has attempted to enter the program, has followed all the rules set forth for him and has proven he can succeed, he should be rewarded with "good time" and be released.
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122) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 9, 2008]
I agree..
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123) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 8, 2008]
No I still firmly support this bill.
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124) congratulations, grandmother. [by crazycajun on May 7, 2008]
you finally got what you wanted.

good for you.

good for him.

we await news of his progress.
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125) Very Nice Reply! [by sandie_221 on May 8, 2008]
Very nice reply.
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126) Thats wonderful! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 7, 2008]
Please tell him to take advantage of the programs offered to him through his agent. My God son came home in Feb and is starting his second semester of college today.
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127) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 7, 2008]
I sure will . Good luck to your Godson too.
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128) Once again [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
Everyone has the right to come here and write there thoughts on this bill but PLEASE DONT FEED THE TROLL.Just ignore him and maybe he will go back under the bridge where he belongs.
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129) a quote and a question. [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
a liberal quoted this line from an analyst.

"These reforms assume that nonviolent crooks should still pay for their crimes, but that it’s unwise to also make the taxpayer keep paying for their crimes.”

okay, so how does this analyst, and those on the left propose that the criminal should be made to pay?

perhaps a CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY FEE.

it's not working for driving, maybe it won't work for crime either.

but no... our legislature couldn't possibly put a responsibility fee on a beloved inmate.
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130) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
Where did you get this qoute so we can read the whole thing?
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131) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I did not write the quote but I did find it.
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132) you ARE the [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
only proponent of this bill.

unless you count the troll and the liberal.

the troll only babbles about his imaginary boat, and the liberal has no clue.
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133) YOU! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 7, 2008]
You are the troll!
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134) Argue.... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
You know he just wants to argue with you G-Ma....or anyone for that matter....So sad! no life!!!!!
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135) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I know, THANKS.
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136) i got it from [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
YOU g-ma.

you provided it, you should have it at your fingertips.

unless of course, you made it up.

it's farther down the thread, if you want to read it for yourself.

don't be afraid to ask for help...
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137) Time To Quit The Game-Playing [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]

Every credible analyst and commentator who looks at Michigan’s prison budget situation arrives at the same conclusion: The way to fix the budget is to reduce the prison incarceration rate and population by reforming the state's sentencing and incarceration policies and practices.

Whether you generally approve or dislike Governor Granholm, it is patently unfair to lay blame for prison budget increases at her feet. The real culprit is a cabal of legislators led by Senator Alan Cropsey, a DeWitt Republican. Cropsey is the chairman of the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee that reviews legislation like this bill, and has vowed to use his position to stop dead in its tracks any legislation aimed at reforms necessary to achieve a reduced prison system budget.

Last year, for example, Granholm’s Department of Corrections proposed changes in sentencing for about 230 crimes. Those proposed changes – spiked so far by Cropsey and Company -- were aimed at reducing inmate populations and stood to save the Michigan taxpaying public $92 million this year.

As Kenneth R. Braun, a Mackinac Center analyst wrote last August, “The critical component is reducing the time [served] for those convicted of nonviolent offenses. At least 44 percent of the inmates taken in by the state in 2006 were for non-violent crimes. That’s 4,868 crooks in very costly cages — at taxpayer expense — usually because they are dishonest or careless, but not because they are violent predators. These reforms assume that nonviolent crooks should still pay for their crimes, but that it’s unwise to also make the taxpayer keep paying for their crimes.”

It is time for Cropsey and Company to quit playing their idiotic partisan games and start acting like responsible state policymakers. They should clear the path for reform legislation like this bill to become law, and start saving Michigan taxpayers millions of dollars a year in what now are essentially wasted expenditures.

This is not mere stroke-of-the-pen game playing. It is serious decision making that requires serious adults acting like responsible policymakers and leaders to get done.

It is of no consequence to taxpayers who gets damnation for the waste or credit for the savings. But it is essential for the waste to stop and it is high time to implement savings that can be achieved without jeopardizing public safety.

(signed) A Conservative Taxpayer For Responsible Government

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138) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I agree.
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139) okay libbie. let's talk... [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
Every credible analyst and commentator who looks at Michigan’s prison budget situation arrives at the same conclusion: The way to fix the budget is to reduce the prison incarceration rate and population by reforming the state's sentencing and incarceration policies and practices.

[okay, name them. let the population of michigan decided who is credible and who is not. you saying 'every credible analyst' is like hillary saying 'studies show'. so how about some CITATIONS? of course, you won't supply them.]

Whether you generally approve or dislike Governor Granholm, it is patently unfair to lay blame for prison budget increases at her feet.

[why? SHE proposed the budget. SHE increased the per inmate per day fee in HER proposed budget. unless you'd like us to believe that the REPUBLICANS IN POWER did this. she, or someone on her staff is raising the amount that the taxpayers pay for prisons without a vote, and without representation as to the wishes of the people of michigan.]

The real culprit is a cabal of legislators led by Senator Alan Cropsey, a DeWitt Republican.

[really? i'd like to see the evidence that sen. cropsey submitted the governor's budget request.]

Cropsey is the chairman of the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee that reviews legislation like this bill, and has vowed to use his position to stop dead in its tracks any legislation aimed at reforms necessary to achieve a reduced prison system budget.

[unfortunately, the governor hasn't made any. all she's done is fire cops, close prisons, and blame republicans. you are doing the same thing. if sen. cropsey is THAT BAD of a republican, why do you vote for him?]



Last year, for example, Granholm’s Department of Corrections proposed changes in sentencing for about 230 crimes. Those proposed changes – spiked so far by Cropsey and Company -- were aimed at reducing inmate populations and stood to save the Michigan taxpaying public $92 million this year.

[what legislation number is this? i want to look it up for myself. by the way, how does the governor go about getting a bill introduced?]

As Kenneth R. Braun, a Mackinac Center analyst wrote last August, “The critical component is reducing the time [served] for those convicted of nonviolent offenses. At least 44 percent of the inmates taken in by the state in 2006 were for non-violent crimes. That’s 4,868 crooks in very costly cages — at taxpayer expense — usually because they are dishonest or careless, but not because they are violent predators.
These reforms assume that nonviolent crooks should still pay for their crimes, but that it’s unwise to also make the taxpayer keep paying for their crimes.”

[so, what do you suggest? to save money, we must let them off. how do you suggest we make them pay for their crimes against society? now, if we CUT THE AMOUNT WE CHARGE OURSELVES FOR THOSE CAGES, THE SAVINGS WOULD BE LARGE, AND RAPID.]

It is time for Cropsey and Company to quit playing their idiotic partisan games and start acting like responsible state policymakers.

[you, as a republican, should just NOT VOTE FOR THEM. but i forgot, you are a liberal PROFESSING to be a republican.]

They should clear the path for reform legislation like this bill to become law, and start saving Michigan taxpayers millions of dollars a year in what now are essentially wasted expenditures.

[now, how about simply CUTTING THE EXPENDITURES and letting the chips fall where they may? the people decided that they wanted their representatives to be tough on crime. the representatives obviously erred in WHICH crimes should be punished. THEY DID MAKE THE LAWS, didn't they? now, somebody must have thought it was a good idea to make all those things illegal. it couldn't have been done without a MAJORITY of representatives agreeing with it. no one legislates alone. they not only did it, but they did it over almost TWO CENTURIES, so the problem is not recent. liberal spending policies have not helped the state of michigan. our prison situation IS NOT a product of our laws, it's a product of LIBERALS IN CONTROL OF THE PURSE STRINGS. REFORM THAT, and you will solve all our prison problems.]


This is not mere stroke-of-the-pen game playing. It is serious decision making that requires serious adults acting like responsible policymakers and leaders to get done.

[oh, so now, the STROKE-OF-THE-PEN is not only POSSIBLE, but GAME PLAYING. wasn't it YOU that said that it was impossible for a simple STROKE-OF-THE-PEN to change the PER INMATE PER DAY FEE? obviously you were wrong. jennifer did it with a SIMPLE STROKE-OF-THE-PEN. why can't we UN-DO IT?]

It is of no consequence to taxpayers who gets damnation for the waste or credit for the savings.

[oh, yes, there are PLENTY of consequences, if the voters here have any spine at all. if they DON'T have a spine, only then do you get no consequences.]

But it is essential for the waste to stop and it is high time to implement savings that can be achieved without jeopardizing public safety.

[okay, so please explain how releasing inmates isn't going to jeopardize public safety?]

(signed) A Conservative Taxpayer For Responsible Government

[and while you are at it, explain how it is responsible to release inmates that juries of the people have found guilty and put in prison?]


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140) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
Credible analyst's are all over the internet look them up yuorselfes, I am sure you have read these reports as we have.
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141) hey g-ma. [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
what's a

yuorselfes?????
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142) I knew it! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I knew he would have to point out your mistake G-Ma! So sad......no life!
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143) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
My laugh for the day. HAHA
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144) Mine too! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I was waiting for him....once again to point out your mistake. So sad.....No life!
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145) the chairman of the [by crazycajun on May 5, 2008]
senate judiciary committee is SEN. WAYNE KUIPERS, according to the state website. at least you got the PARTY right.

the chairman of the house appropriations committee is REP. ALMA SMITH. she is a democrat, and the governor's proposed budget sailed right through her committee without a second look or a word of complaint about the increases.

look it up for yourself.


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146) trust a 'professed [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
conservative' with liberal credentials to screw up his own arguement.

thirty seconds of FACT CHECKING would have saved you a red face.


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147) Well spoken!!!! I agree!!!!! [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
I'm sure you will here from our troll soon.....
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148) Michigan’s Prison Budget Increases [by Anonymous Citizen on May 4, 2008]

Hardly are driven by arbitrary pen strokes from the governor. They reflect real costs and are driven by state policies that ensure Michigan will continue to have an extraordinarily high rate of incarceration. Until those policies change to reduce the incarceration rate and prison population over time, the prison budget will continue to rise. That is the conclusion virtually every credible observer reaches up looking at the situation.

Legislation like the proposal to restore “good time” credits is needed to produce the policy reforms that will reduce the cost of operating Michigan prisons. This bill is not the whole package, but it is a start in that direction. That is why I support it.

(signed) A Conservative Taxpayer For Responsible Government

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149) wow. for a 'professed [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
conservative', you sure talk like a liberal.


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150) and our 'professed [by uber-liberal on May 5, 2008]
conservative' supports what the liberal governor did.

not a word of complaint about raising taxes or the per inmate per day fee. just acceptance.

not even a whimper about higher incarceration rates. just acceptance.

it must be something in the water.
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151) hey liberal tax dodger. [by crazycajun on May 5, 2008]
haven't you read this site?

the news is that the governor put up her budget. two point one BILLION dollars. no studies, no facts, just the governor's budget.

a simple STROKE OF THE PEN.

not even the legislative pen, just jennifer's.

so far it's sailing right through both houses without a hitch. where is the CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURE you supposedly elected?

all too afraid to vote against the governor's power machine party?

all too afraid to buck the STATUS QUO and vote against taxes and spending?

they must be. they are letting her raise taxes with a simple stroke of the pen. which, by the way, raises the PER INMATE PER DAY FEE with the SAME STROKE OF THE PEN.

and YOU said it couldn't be done...
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152) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
Maybe they have no other responsible choices. You can not keep raising prison populations and keeping inmates longer and longer without costs increasing.
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153) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
I see alot of complaining from our trolls but no solutions, which is their typical responses. they all say the samething just word it differently. where is your solutions guys. REP. Cropsey does not even give any solutions.
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154) dear grandmother. [by crazycajun on May 3, 2008]
first off, where are you going to get the EXTRA MONEY needed to monitor those inmates you would like to release?

by raising taxes?

it certainly won't come from the SAVINGS from releasing those inmates, because if you have to spend the money elsewhere, it ISN'T SAVINGS.

also, the paultry sum you talk about won't even BEGIN to cover the bill for monitoring.

next, how are you going to get your governor to sign such legislation?

she hasn't even considered any of the bills brought to her so far.

after that, how are you going to get this bill out of committee?

even the democrat chairman refuses to consider this bill.

now, how do you expect anyone who wishes to get re-elected to be SOFT ON CRIME?

i know that you won't (or can't) answer these questions, g-ma, and i KNOW the troll doesn't have the brain cells it takes to blink, so, i'm not really expecting any answers, but the questions are out there.

the opposition already knows the answers.
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155) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 4, 2008]
They have a choice soft on crime (as you put it) or higher taxes to pay for increase costs of prisons. Now which one are you going to use your political fear tactics on. No reelection votes if your soft on crime or no reelection if you are going to raise taxes?
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156) both. [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
we are sure to get a republican then.


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157) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
And go deeper in debt. Maybe you can get your party to just print up some more money.
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158) Prison Reform Big Topic in Lansing Today [by Anonymous Citizen on May 2, 2008]
The Michigan Department of Corrections has one of the biggest budgets in the state. Today, those with key knowledge of the system will come together and look for ways to save money.



Right now, Michigan's prison system gobbles up $2B a year.

The high cost of keeping people behind bars cuts from other areas, too.

Those areas include schooling and health care.

Today's meeting comes not long after our partners at the Detroit News did a series of stories on the explosive growth of our prison system.

There are more than 50,000 people locked up in the state, at a cost of more than $31,000 a year, per prisoner.

The Detroit News also reported Michigan is only one of four states that actually spends more on prisons than it does on higher education.

Today's meeting could be the first step in changing all that.

There are some cost cutting measures already in place but they are part of long range plans that could take years to complete
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159) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 3, 2008]
Citizens Research Council of Michigan Report on May 2, 2008. The cost of Mi. prisons in the next four years will increase by 500 million dollars ( a 25% increase), unless policymakers can reduce the number of people who end up behind bars. Prison population will increase by 5800 inmates. This is due to longer prisons stays, plus costs for health care, utilities, and wages. No solutions were given on how to handle prison costs, however ideas were exchanged of diverting substance abusers and the mentally ill offenders into non-prison programs.
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160) i thought that the mentally [by Anonymous Citizen on May 4, 2008]
ill were already 'diverted' into other non prison programs, such as MENTAL INSTITUTIONS.

now, the DIFFERENCE between 'NORMAL' mentally ill people and 'CRIMINALLY INSANE' inmates is that 'NORMAL' mentally ill people can be 'cured', and can get 'better'. CRIMINALLY INSANE people CANNOT, and must be 'warehoused' forever.

now, if an insane person is a criminal, that makes them CRIMINALLY INSANE. what is the difference if you 'warehouse' them in a prison, or in an insane asylum?

they CANNOT be released back onto society, BUT occasionally, to SAVE MONEY, they are SOMEHOW miraculously CURED.

as a medical person, please explain how a criminally insane person can be suddenly 'DECLARED SANE'?

can PSYCOTIC TENDENCIES be cured by a short stay in a mental institution? does CHARLES MANSON have any hope of release? overcrowding our already overstuffed mental facilities MIGHT relieve our PRISON OVERCROWDING, but i doubt it.

all you are trying to do is ROB PETER TO PAY PAUL.

so, where do these inmates end up? back on the streets so the 'cycle' can start all over?
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161) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 4, 2008]
Mental institutions ?? what are those. Engler closed them down. As for the rest of your gibberish chatter it is of no value here.
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162) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
You Sidestepped the mental institutions problem.Every person who has a mental problem is not criminally insane.
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163) no, not every person who [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
is in a mental institution is criminally insane. but every criminal is.

now, do you ALSO propose to allow them to run free among us? all in the name of saving us money?

by the way, you have sidestepped MANY issues, too numerous to mention. we, on the other hand, have answered ALL your questions.

are you ignorant, or just RUDE?


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164) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
What mental institutions? there are none these people are just dumped out on the streets. Thanks to your party.
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165) it's only GIBBERISH [by Anonymous Citizen on May 5, 2008]
if you don't comprehend.

it's only GIBBERISH if you don't understand.

it's only GIBBERISH if you can't wrap your mind around the truth.


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166) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
Wrap your mind around this!!!!
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167) are you sitting there [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
giving the screen the 'bird', g-ma?

or are you mooning the screen?

both visuals i could do without.
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168) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
The sick-o troll is still here.
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169) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
Gibberish is exactly what I meant. What mental institutions? Engler did away with them. Mentally ill people are dumped out on the streets and when they get in any trouble are warehoused in our prisons. Do you comprehend? Do you understand?
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170) oh, you mean that [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
engler did EXACTLY THE SAME THING that this legislation is planning to do?

you ARE going to just DUMP PRISONERS ON THE STREET BECAUSE WE CAN NO LONGER AFFORD TO 'WAREHOUSE' THEM, AREN'T YOU?

if you don't like THAT result, what makes you think that you will like THIS result?

they will be EXACTLY THE SAME.

WHAT PRISONS???

we can't afford 'em. jennie is already closing 'em.

NOW who do you blame????

engler of course...

jennie, as a democrat, can do no wrong in your eyes.
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171) G-Ma [by Anonymous Citizen on May 6, 2008]
This post does not even warrant a reply it is so profoundly stupid.
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172) dear grandmother. [by crazycajun on May 5, 2008]
why do you take the PROVEN FACTS i present to you and label them as gibberish?

are you sitting there with your hands over your ears shouting 'LALALALALLALALALALALA' at the top of your lungs?

you beg others to LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNICATIONS, our elected representatives in particular, yet, you won't listen to THE TRUTH.

not a tenable position to put your politician into.

besides, if you can't get a democrat in charge of the committee to even LOOK at this bill, how are you going to get the democrat in the governor's mansion to sign it?

what are you going to do, threaten to replace them with conservative republicans? that's already a given, so it is NO THREAT.
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173) dear grandmother. [by crazycajun on May 5, 2008]
you don't seem too satisfied with our current governor's performance. th